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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wanted to give a warning to others on the site about my experience with BWoody (indirectly and directly) so no one else is impacted like I was. And a side note about user Yamil from this site.



The Cliff Notes version of the situation is below. Read the details below that if you are interested:

-My seller (Yamil from this site) bought a FRI Littleboy replica expecting the exact same specs.
-My seller sold the cam to me assuming the same.
-Due to no cam card and all the stickers on the cam box either peeled off the Lunati box or black marked over, I had what I thought was a cam with FRI Littleboy specs installed for $400 plus shop supplies like oil, filter, coolant, etc. A total of about $500.
-When the truck wouldn’t idle, I did a lot of research including calls to Lunati to get the actual specs of the cam I had. Come to find out it is not a FRI Littleboy replica.
-I find out Bwoody is advertising the FRI Littleboy cam as a replica and even going as far as listing the Littleboy specs on the website but is having their source ship another cam with wildly different specs to their customers. Per Andy, this has come up as an issue with more than just me.
-Now I am out install money for the first cam install, then the difference in purchase price between Yamil's new in box BWoody 'Littelboy' cam and the real Littleboy from MWP, and finally all the time, time away from work, long distance phone calls, alternate transportation, and effort to get it straightened out.





DETAILS:

I purchased a ‘FRI Littleboy’ camshaft from a member on this site (Yamil). When I got the cam it was in a Lunati box and not a Comp Cams box as I had heard a real FRI Littleboy should be. I asked Yamil about that discrepancy and he said the cam came from BWoody and was a replica. Yamil included the text from the BWoody site which gave the Littleboy specs and at the bottom of their description it mentions that it is a replica. I started a thread on this site prior to getting the response from the seller asking for cam stampings for the Littleboy so I could confirm what I had.

After hearing it was a replica (meaning copy) and no one responded with a technical/mechanical reason I shouldn’t just install it, I had my installer put it in.

The idle was very choppy and would not stay running with the stock tune or any aftermarket tune I had. I have heard many people say a FRI Littleboy cam will run with a stock tune so I had not gotten a CMR tune prior to install because my install date was up in the air for a short period.

After going straight to Lunati and getting the cam specs decoded from the stampings on the cam, I found out it is very different than the Littleboy cam. The BWoody cam is 221/227 @ .050. 545/544 with 113 LSA. Whereas the Littleboy is 214/218 @ .050. 565/555 and 114 LSA.

I talked with Mike, the manager of BWoody to explain the issue after letting the seller know. I had been exploring if maybe the wrong cam was grabbed off the shelf and sent to my seller by accident. I was given the contact information for the source of the cam (Andy at PWR) and told to contact him which I did. I was initially told by BWoody directly (and then by my seller who was told this by Bwoody also) my installer made a mistake until I gave Mike all the details from the talk with Lunati. Then he suggested maybe there was an incorrect cam shipped. During the conversation I was told that they (Bwoody) had been offered a Littleboy equivalent and they may have shipped that to my seller. But Mike didn’t know the specs on their equivalent which I find ironic considering this is a product they sell with specs included on their site. I reminded Mike that the original Littleboy specs are still on his site still and that the specs I had already given him for the cam I got was WAY different. We left it there until I could talk with the cams source.


Andy later confirmed that the equivalent cam was shipped as agreed to by Bwoody. And based on the specs I gave him which I got directly from Lunati, it was indeed the cam he shipped out. In other words, no error occurred. Andy shipped exactly what BWoody had agreed to sell as a Littleboy alternative. NOTE. Alternative is not the same thing as a replica. Clearly BWoody is misrepresenting a product they sell by giving one set of specs and having their supplier ship a completely different product. This is no fault of Andys. He was doing what he agreed to do and even offered to swap out this alternative cam with another of my choosing. He went above and beyond on something he had no hand in causing. I didnt take him up on it because I had already ordered the Littleboy cam from MWP.

When I gave all these details to Mike from BWoody, I was told they must have been the victim of miscommunication with Andy or that Andy just went rogue and sent a cam of his choosing. When I asked them to pay for my first install since I had not asked for or expected an ‘Alternative’ set of specs, they said no. After recapping multiple times I finally offered to call us 'even' if they would just split the first install with me by giving me store credit of $250. Mike agreed to do it to mend fences and keep my future business. When I asked for an email stating the credit was on the books for my account, Mike said he had to speak with Greg to get an official email for the credit. I asked if we had a deal or not. He said yes, he would give me the $250 credit one way or another. Talking to Greg was just a formality.

I have now been trying to get them to give me the store credit so I can order my BWoody End Links for just over 2 months and now the story has changed to be Mike will not give me anything and that he will ask Greg if he would consider doing anything for me. I was told to call back and see what Greg said. But I no longer get return calls from the messages I leave. And he is never available when I catch someone.


This isn't a matter of if BWoody should split the install price with me. I think they should. But in the end, they are responsible for the part and not install. The issue here is they agreed to pay it. Confirmed they would compensate me with $250 store credit multiple times on the phone, and now says no. Knowing I have very little recourse as a third party buyer. And yes, I have asked Yamil to pay for it and get the money back from BWoody as he has slightly more leverage than I do as a customer who has spent over $10,000 with BWoody by Mikes admission. But Yamil stopped all communication and refuses to respond.


(Along the way, I disputed the payment to Yamil with Paypal and Yamil contested the dispute. Saying I had been advised after recieving the product it was a replica. I eventually won the dispute by proving it was not a replica and therefore I was shipped something that was different than what I purchased. Paypal had to force a refund from Yamils account after I shipped the cam back and I showed signature confirmation Yamil got it.)
 

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This is a complicated review. The situation with Yamil appears to have been resolved and would not normally be a part of this review of BWoody. The comments about Yamil are necessary in my opinion and form an intregal part of the dispute between the OP and BWoody by explaining how the buyer came upon this situation leading to the involvement of BWoody.

As this review now only concerns BWoody and they are apparently refusing to return calls, I have to assume the OP has exhausted all means of communication and this is his last resort in seeking compensation. BWoody is not a supporting vendor of this site therefore they, their reps or their agents are not permitted to respond in this thread. This will have to be done away from this site with the OP providing updates as necessary. Todd, it's probably a good idea to let Bwoody know about this thread, not through a PM here, but by e-mail or phone call.

Bernie
 

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Bwoody are now supporting vendors of this site and free to tell their side of this review.

Bernie
 
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First..... Frank racing went out of business almost 3 years ago, As soon as Frank racing went out of business people started screamimg for little boy cams. About a year down the road after emailing steve frank trying to call and never had any luck, myself and several other companies contracted Andy at PWR to make a comparable replica (which is stated on our website) Andy agreed to make the replica under one condition .....that he could improve it. Problem is Andy takes all of the cam cards out of the box so the cam cannot be copied (great for Andy he definitly does not want someone to make money off of his design not so great for others who sell his product) If you get a cam from HHP the specs are crossed out with a black marker.....just about everyone does it the cams for this HEMI market are so secretive its not funny. Anyways we were left in the dark with cam specs, when we asked for them we were told there was not much difference........ We did not get specs until here lately when the poop hit the fan and demanded them from Andy. As stated there are never any cam cards in the box and we get no information. We do not manufature the cams Andy from PWR has them made to his specs which is the FRI little boy replica.

Second.... I never told you how much Yamil has spent with our company that is between Yamil and us. Yes Yamil his spent quite a bit of money with us, when he bought his cam he was told that this is a replica littleboy that was manufactured by PWR for us, and that Andy would not release the cam specs to us, Yamil said that was fine that his only concern that was he did not have to change the stock valve springs out. Yamil knew what he was buying.

Third...... I told you that we do not warrenty used parts nor do we pay for any labor of said used part. You purchased this cam from someone else whether it was used or not we have no proof all we know is you purchased it from someone who had purchased it from us. When you buy a used cam from someone it is your responsibility to take the markings off of the cam to make sure what you recieved is what your intending its use for (IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO CHECK THIS BEFORE INSTALL CONSIDERING IT IS CONSIDERED USED) Hell this is one of the first questions I asked you on the phone, you said no you did not check it until you removed it from your vehicle.

Forth..... I never promised you anything, you were telling me what you wanted. I kept telling you we do not cover labor. You insisted that we were going to compensate you in some way. You initially told me it cost you $400 total for the first and second installation because you had a friend install them. You were first demanding a store credit of $400 and you said you wanted a set of springs and links free of charge, I told you no. You then said well how about a set of sway bar links. I told you I would have to see the outcome from Yamil before i made any decisions (mainly to see what was going on with him because I wanted to make sure that someone was not trying to pull a fast one on us). And that we had to make sure that Yamil had supplied all of the proper information to you.

Fifth..... After Ben spoke with Yamil seems your asking exactly the same from him $400, seems like your trying to profit off of this? Yamil spoke with us right after Thanksgiving explaining that your asking for money from him and Yamill was asking us if we would cover that expence. Ben proceded to explain to Yamil that YOU were asking the same from us. I do believe Yamil feels that your trying to get something from everyone.


Recap..... Bottom line is I told you that we did not pay for labor for a part that was not purchased from us (as we have no control over what was promised nor what you recieved). Yamil knew what cam he was recieving, every customer that has ordered this cam has been notified that it is an improved version that comes from PWR and that PWR has yet to supply the specs for the cam to us. We explain this to every customer that has bought this cam from us, if you would have bought this cam from us new you would have realized this and possibly changed your mind before buying. We had never recieved any cam specs from Andy at PWR until YOU emailed a picture of the cam card to us that you recieved from Andy at PWR, we then talked to Andy and explained the situation and he then sent the same picture of the cam card to me through text (this is the first time we have ever seen the specs of this cam!!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
First..... Frank racing went out of business almost 3 years ago, As soon as Frank racing went out of business people started screamimg for little boy cams. About a year down the road after emailing steve frank trying to call and never had any luck, myself and several other companies contracted Andy at PWR to make a comparable replica (which is stated on our website) Andy agreed to make the replica under one condition .....that he could improve it. Problem is Andy takes all of the cam cards out of the box so the cam cannot be copied (great for Andy he definitly does not want someone to make money off of his design not so great for others who sell his product) If you get a cam from HHP the specs are crossed out with a black marker.....just about everyone does it the cams for this HEMI market are so secretive its not funny. Anyways we were left in the dark with cam specs, when we asked for them we were told there was not much difference........ We did not get specs until here lately when the poop hit the fan and demanded them from Andy. As stated there are never any cam cards in the box and we get no information. We do not manufature the cams Andy from PWR has them made to his specs which is the FRI little boy replica.

Second.... I never told you how much Yamil has spent with our company that is between Yamil and us. Yes Yamil his spent quite a bit of money with us, when he bought his cam he was told that this is a replica littleboy that was manufactured by PWR for us, and that Andy would not release the cam specs to us, Yamil said that was fine that his only concern that was he did not have to change the stock valve springs out. Yamil knew what he was buying.

Third...... I told you that we do not warrenty used parts nor do we pay for any labor of said used part. You purchased this cam from someone else whether it was used or not we have no proof all we know is you purchased it from someone who had purchased it from us. When you buy a used cam from someone it is your responsibility to take the markings off of the cam to make sure what you recieved is what your intending its use for (IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO CHECK THIS BEFORE INSTALL CONSIDERING IT IS CONSIDERED USED) Hell this is one of the first questions I asked you on the phone, you said no you did not check it until you removed it from your vehicle.

Forth..... I never promised you anything, you were telling me what you wanted. I kept telling you we do not cover labor. You insisted that we were going to compensate you in some way. You initially told me it cost you $400 total for the first and second installation because you had a friend install them. You were first demanding a store credit of $400 and you said you wanted a set of springs and links free of charge, I told you no. You then said well how about a set of sway bar links. I told you I would have to see the outcome from Yamil before i made any decisions (mainly to see what was going on with him because I wanted to make sure that someone was not trying to pull a fast one on us). And that we had to make sure that Yamil had supplied all of the proper information to you.

Fifth..... After Ben spoke with Yamil seems your asking exactly the same from him $400, seems like your trying to profit off of this? Yamil spoke with us right after Thanksgiving explaining that your asking for money from him and Yamill was asking us if we would cover that expence. Ben proceded to explain to Yamil that YOU were asking the same from us. I do believe Yamil feels that your trying to get something from everyone.


Recap..... Bottom line is I told you that we did not pay for labor for a part that was not purchased from us (as we have no control over what was promised nor what you recieved). Yamil knew what cam he was recieving, every customer that has ordered this cam has been notified that it is an improved version that comes from PWR and that PWR has yet to supply the specs for the cam to us. We explain this to every customer that has bought this cam from us, if you would have bought this cam from us new you would have realized this and possibly changed your mind before buying. We had never recieved any cam specs from Andy at PWR until YOU emailed a picture of the cam card to us that you recieved from Andy at PWR, we then talked to Andy and explained the situation and he then sent the same picture of the cam card to me through text (this is the first time we have ever seen the specs of this cam!!)


Everyone knows that you have a shady past. <personal attack - removed>. The replies in my ‘informational’ thread in the turbo/performance forum clears it up pretty well. And I have no reason to lie or tell half truths but you on the other hand do. I have moved on. I HAD about $1000 on my list of 'to buys' from BWoody specifically but now that's all gone. I will either buy from another company or do without. So your profit on those sales more than makes up for the $250 you promised me. And I am sure after all the comments and others simply reading everything, your dishonesty will cost you a lot more than the $250 as well. All because you couldn’t advertise what you ship so customers know exactly what they are getting AND keep to your word and give me the store credit to only partly compensate me for your dishonesty (or at minimum lack of attention by listing one set of specs and knowingly sending out another). And to show how much disregard you show for your customers, you are to this day advertising the ‘FRI Littleboy Cam’ along with the real Littleboy specs. Do you not learn your lesson?????

So I will play your little game with this one response. Only because you are insinuating I am saying something that isn't true. But beyond that, you are not worth it. Everyone knows the truth. Which makes my job easy. Everyone is know away of your actions and the fact that if they want a real Littleboy cam, they should not buy from you!!!!!!


So to start, your story about selling a Littleboy ‘alternative’ using the specs I received from the beginning is a bold face lie. I have a friend who purchased a cam from you about a year before I did but after FRI stopped selling them. He got the normal spec'd cam which runs the same as my truck. So that is lie number one. And goes specifically against what you told me on the phone. Both in conversations after this was installed and I was calling to find out what happened AND when I made a phone call before I even installed the cam and called only to find out if you could give me the stampings off a cam on your shelf. If you remember, I spoke to you in that call as well. Both times you told me you sent a cam away to have analyzed and replicated. I asked if you sold the non +4 spec'd Littleboy cam and you said no since that was the cam you had at the time and had analyzed. Read my definition of 'replica' in my other thread if you need help with the basics of the English language.



Your point 2 -
You most certainly did tell me how much Yamil spent. How would I know otherwise? You told me if Yamil had called with the issue originally you would have had more leverage because he had spent more than $10,000 with your company. You even gave me dates on some of his purchases including when he purchased the cam. So this is bold face lie number 2. And a side note on you saying Yamil was aware of this being an alternative cam spec versus the actual FRI Littleboy……. Yamil never told me that and even said it was a replica with the exact same specs. He didn't know it was different at the time. How could he with your dishonest behavior. He sent me a pm giving the text from your site which as I said, still to this day gives the real specs from the Littleboy cam since you are too dishonest to change it and sell the cam on its own merits. You even badmouthed Modern Warfare Performance saying they never got the original specs from FRI and that you were told by Frank himself that Modern Warfare Performance was selling an alternative. That he (Frank) wouldn’t give out the original specs of the cam or allow anyone to sell it under the same name. I even asked Chris from MWP about this before I ordered the real cam from them and was told that is not the case. So I am calling lie here as well. You never told Yamil that it was an ‘Alternative’. You stuck to your sites verbiage and called it a replica.

Your point 3 -
This is your first truth. Congratulations. You did tell me you do not warranty 'used' parts and installations. And I confirmed I understood your point and understood why you typically wouldn't do anything for me. But that it was a new, never opened item and was not just a matter of me not liking the performance. This was a case of you selling/advertising one set of specs and shipping another. My guess is you want to capitalize on the popularity of the FRI name and the Littleboy Cam following. Shame on you!
I have the screen print of your site to post as a picture if you try to be even more dishonest and change your site and say I am mistaken about what your site says (as if people can’t look on their own). You would think with all the problems you had with this situation, you would change the site to reflect what you are really selling. But as of 15 minutes ago, you STILL haven’t changed it!


Your point 4 -
Now you are back to lies. Shame on you. I did tell you the first install was $400 labor. But I also said I had synthetic oil, oil filter, coolant, etc which added another $100. Hence I posted $500 for the entire install above. Then the second install to correct your mistake cost me a duplicate of the above. So $1000 in total install, $500 of it to put in the correct cam with specs that are accurately described in the ad. Meaning the one from MWP. You are also correct that I initially asked you to cover my first install ($500). And when you refused, I offered to cover half of the entire install (including shop supplies) just to call us even (notice 500 divided 2 = 250). You agreed finally, maybe just to shut me up since you had no clear rebuttal for my argument. But you did say yes none the less. In fact you said yes on multiple occasions. If you weren't such a liar and actually had a backbone to take responsibility for your actions, you would admit it. Even if you changed your mind and now do not want to cover it. You are clearly demonstrating you do not hold to your word. And you are a liar. Pure and simple.

Your 5th point -
This isn’t exactly a lie on your part, but is definitely skewing the truth. I did initially tell Yamil that I wanted my money back for the cam and I wanted him to pay for install. His only communication to me was that I got the cam I purchased. That it was a replica of the cam made by BWoody. And that you claimed my installer messed up the install. He never addressed giving me my install money back. When I didn’t get anywhere with that (he wouldn't contact me back otherwise) I came to you and told you the same. He didn’t knowingly sell me a cam with incorrect specs. That was your fault for false advertising. I said as much in my original review as well. I said I went to him since he would have more leverage with you than I would since I wasn't the original purchaser. To say I would have tried to get money from both AND actually accept it is a blatant attempt by you to make me look dishonest. It will not work. I pride myself on complete and total honesty. In fact, I routinely ‘cut my nose off to spite my face’ as the saying goes. Because I will not be dishonest. I will not lie. Even if it costs me money or parts. Anyone who has ever dealt with me will say the same. And I am not looking for anything further from you at this point. So I have nothing to gain. BUT, everyone knows you are dishonest and unfortunately for Greg and your business, your dishonesty is rubbing off on BWoody's business (assuming Greg isn’t dishonest like you).

A note on your 'recap'. –
You agreed as well as Andy that the part I had was what you had Andy ship. Are you calling Andy a liar also???? I can see you calling Andy a liar with all of the very, very negative comments you made about Andy including how you said you would never trust a motor built by him or anyone else who builds motors ‘out of their garage’.
So the line about not knowing what I received is a moot point. You know, Andy knows, and I know I installed exactly what you intended Andy ship out to your customers. You admitted it to me more than once. So you are throwing the red herring out there but it will not work.

Also, you say every customer you order this cam for is notified that it is an alternative set of specs and not what you are advertising on your site (man, strange I have to keep pointing that fact out and you still haven't changed it). You would think you could at least leave this lie out of your response. But you are bringing in a lie that wouldn't have even been necessary. Apparently you are a pathological liar. As I said above, I have a friend who ordered the same cam from you and got the REAL spec'd cam. Or at least one that was close enough so the difference wasn’t obvious. It certainly wasn't anything near what I got. So you haven't always gone out of your way to notify your customers of the alternative specs. If you did that with Yamil, he would have sent it along to get his self off the hook on the dispute. But he didn't.

Another lie - I never emailed a picture of the cam card to you since as you stated above, no cam card comes with the cams. I emailed you a picture of the end of the cam with the stampings so you could confirm that I had the part you intended me (or anyone who purchased this cam from you) to have. Which you did. Get your facts straight. You say it is the first time you saw the specs of the cam…. Then why the heck does your site give a complete set of specs for the real Littleboy cam????? If you don't know the specs, take the crap off your site and be honest about the cam you are selling.


I have made my point. You are a bold faced liar. Not just forgetful or mistaken. The $250 credit you agreed to but will not grant me or admit to is only a small bit of the problem I have with your behavior. You are still selling that cam advertised in the same way, even after all the problems I have had. Showing no concern whatsoever for your customers experience or expenses if they are not willing to deal with this wildly different cam you are having shipped.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
More proof like I said you should have taken the numbers off of the cam and made a call, you would have known before install. Especially being a Used cam.
As you will recall, I did call and asked for the stampings off your version of the Littleboy cam so I could make sure Yamil sent me the same part you sell. That was prior to installing it. You said you sent a original cam away to be copied. When I asked for the specs to be sure it was correct, you said I would have to send away a cam to get measured if I wanted all the details. Otherwise your site gives the basic specs on the cam.

You never mentioned alternative specs then and even after we were deep into the research on what happened, you only vaguely recalled authorizing Andy to ship an alternative but you weren't even sure if that was what I had or not.


So you are saying I shouldn't trust your site OR you (since I called and you yourself said it was a copy, not alternative) and should do my own research in the future on your products to make sure what I get from you is what I actually ordered?????????????

Boy, you have a brass set. Blame me for your dishonesty.
 

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Everyone knows that you have a shady past. <personal attack - removed>. The replies in my ‘informational’ thread in the turbo/performance forum clears it up pretty well. And I have no reason to lie or tell half truths but you on the other hand do. I have moved on. I HAD about $1000 on my list of 'to buys' from BWoody specifically but now that's all gone. I will either buy from another company or do without. So your profit on those sales more than makes up for the $250 you promised me. And I am sure after all the comments and others simply reading everything, your dishonesty will cost you a lot more than the $250 as well. All because you couldn’t advertise what you ship so customers know exactly what they are getting AND keep to your word and give me the store credit to only partly compensate me for your dishonesty (or at minimum lack of attention by listing one set of specs and knowingly sending out another). And to show how much disregard you show for your customers, you are to this day advertising the ‘FRI Littleboy Cam’ along with the real Littleboy specs. Do you not learn your lesson?????
I never promised you anything I told you I would considerate it depending on the out come with Yamil. There is no shady past here here Todd.

So I will play your little game with this one response. Only because you are insinuating I am saying something that isn't true. But beyond that, you are not worth it. Everyone knows the truth. Which makes my job easy. Everyone is know away of your actions and the fact that if they want a real Littleboy cam, they should not buy from you!!!!!!
Todd I told you after I buy the cam from Andy pay for shipping pay the credit card fees I make less than $15 on the cam, Never selling another Little Boy replica cam from PWR would not hurt my feelings one bit.


So to start, your story about selling a Littleboy ‘alternative’ using the specs I received from the beginning is a bold face lie. I have a friend who purchased a cam from you about a year before I did but after FRI stopped selling them. He got the normal spec'd cam which runs the same as my truck. So that is lie number one. And goes specifically against what you told me on the phone. Both in conversations after this was installed and I was calling to find out what happened AND when I made a phone call before I even installed the cam and called only to find out if you could give me the stampings off a cam on your shelf. If you remember, I spoke to you in that call as well. Both times you told me you sent a cam away to have analyzed and replicated. I asked if you sold the non +4 spec'd Littleboy cam and you said no since that was the cam you had at the time and had analyzed. Read my definition of 'replica' in my other thread if you need help with the basics of the English language.
A lie??? funny Frank racing has been out of business for almost 3 years The last thing I sold from frank racing was a set of heads to SCAM and they were on my shelf at the shop for almost 11 months and that install was done almost 2 years ago. Yamil purchased this cam from us on 11/26/2010. and there is a lie on your part, you did not call me prior to the install. The first conversation that I had with you was the call about the truck would not idle I suggested using Joel to send you a tune, you said you were using Johann. You never called me for any cam specs before your install!!



Your point 2 -
You most certainly did tell me how much Yamil spent. How would I know otherwise? You told me if Yamil had called with the issue originally you would have had more leverage because he had spent more than $10,000 with your company. You even gave me dates on some of his purchases including when he purchased the cam. So this is bold face lie number 2. And a side note on you saying Yamil was aware of this being an alternative cam spec versus the actual FRI Littleboy……. Yamil never told me that and even said it was a replica with the exact same specs. He didn't know it was different at the time. How could he with your dishonest behavior. He sent me a pm giving the text from your site which as I said, still to this day gives the real specs from the Littleboy cam since you are too dishonest to change it and sell the cam on its own merits. You even badmouthed Modern Warfare Performance saying they never got the original specs from FRI and that you were told by Frank himself that Modern Warfare Performance was selling an alternative. That he (Frank) wouldn’t give out the original specs of the cam or allow anyone to sell it under the same name. I even asked Chris from MWP about this before I ordered the real cam from them and was told that is not the case. So I am calling lie here as well. You never told Yamil that it was an ‘Alternative’. You stuck to your sites verbiage and called it a replica.
1. No I did not tell you how much he has spend cause pal you are not even close.
2. I never told you that they were the exact same specs, Yamil may have but I did not when I contacted Yamil before we ordered his cam from Andy I explained to him what he would be recieving he asked if he had to change the springs I said no, that was his main concrern.
3. I never bad mouthed modern warfare, I told you they bought the rights to all of the frank racing cams approximatly 2 years after framk racing went under.

Your point 3 -
This is your first truth. Congratulations. You did tell me you do not warranty 'used' parts and installations. And I confirmed I understood your point and understood why you typically wouldn't do anything for me. But that it was a new, never opened item and was not just a matter of me not liking the performance. This was a case of you selling/advertising one set of specs and shipping another. My guess is you want to capitalize on the popularity of the FRI name and the Littleboy Cam following. Shame on you!
I have the screen print of your site to post as a picture if you try to be even more dishonest and change your site and say I am mistaken about what your site says (as if people can’t look on their own). You would think with all the problems you had with this situation, you would change the site to reflect what you are really selling. But as of 15 minutes ago, you STILL haven’t changed it!
Capitalizing on the name? Before Frank Racing went under we were their largest re-seller, I told you the only demand left was for the fri littleboy and customers wanted an alternative, so they would not have to change the OEM springs.

Your point 4 -
Now you are back to lies. Shame on you. I did tell you the first install was $400 labor. But I also said I had synthetic oil, oil filter, coolant, etc which added another $100. Hence I posted $500 for the entire install above. Then the second install to correct your mistake cost me a duplicate of the above. So $1000 in total install, $500 of it to put in the correct cam with specs that are accurately described in the ad. Meaning the one from MWP. You are also correct that I initially asked you to cover my first install ($500). And when you refused, I offered to cover half of the entire install (including shop supplies) just to call us even (notice 500 divided 2 = 250). You agreed finally, maybe just to shut me up since you had no clear rebuttal for my argument. But you did say yes none the less. In fact you said yes on multiple occasions. If you weren't such a liar and actually had a backbone to take responsibility for your actions, you would admit it. Even if you changed your mind and now do not want to cover it. You are clearly demonstrating you do not hold to your word. And you are a liar. Pure and simple.
Again.... I never promised you anything I told you I would considerate it depending on the out come with Yamil.

2. You called me after the second install saying you had already recieved a real fri littleboy from modern warfare. You told me your friend did both installs, the only number you ever threw out was $400 same number you threw at Yamil.


Your 5th point -
This isn’t exactly a lie on your part, but is definitely skewing the truth. I did initially tell Yamil that I wanted my money back for the cam and I wanted him to pay for install. His only communication to me was that I got the cam I purchased. That it was a replica of the cam made by BWoody. And that you claimed my installer messed up the install. He never addressed giving me my install money back. When I didn’t get anywhere with that (he wouldn't contact me back otherwise) I came to you and told you the same. He didn’t knowingly sell me a cam with incorrect specs. That was your fault for false advertising. I said as much in my original review as well. I said I went to him since he would have more leverage with you than I would since I wasn't the original purchaser. To say I would have tried to get money from both AND actually accept it is a blatant attempt by you to make me look dishonest. It will not work. I pride myself on complete and total honesty. In fact, I routinely ‘cut my nose off to spite my face’ as the saying goes. Because I will not be dishonest. I will not lie. Even if it costs me money or parts. Anyone who has ever dealt with me will say the same. And I am not looking for anything further from you at this point. So I have nothing to gain. BUT, everyone knows you are dishonest and unfortunately for Greg and your business, your dishonesty is rubbing off on BWoody's business (assuming Greg isn’t dishonest like you).
1. From my understanding when Ben talked to yamil he said you were looking for labor compensation as well, I also explained to you on the phone that if you were the original purchaser that I would have bent over backwards for you, but every conversation I ever had with you was you demanding compensation, store credit and if I remember correctly you were talking lawyer.

2. The first time you ever called me was right after install of the cam, you told me it would not run, I asked you if your friend installed it correctly, I explained how easy it would be to get it out of time. I also explained that we have never had an issue with one not starting up after install, I told you that we have always been able to start one up with no problem even with the OEM tune.

A note on your 'recap'. –
You agreed as well as Andy that the part I had was what you had Andy ship. Are you calling Andy a liar also???? I can see you calling Andy a liar with all of the very, very negative comments you made about Andy including how you said you would never trust a motor built by him or anyone else who builds motors ‘out of their garage’.
So the line about not knowing what I received is a moot point. You know, Andy knows, and I know I installed exactly what you intended Andy ship out to your customers. You admitted it to me more than once. So you are throwing the red herring out there but it will not work.
Now your blantantly lying, I have never made any type of comment like that about Andy. The only comment I have made to you about Andy is that he has come along way for some one who once ran his business out of his garage and that I could understand why he would not want to just give his cam specs out to everyone.

Also, you say every customer you order this cam for is notified that it is an alternative set of specs and not what you are advertising on your site (man, strange I have to keep pointing that fact out and you still haven't changed it). You would think you could at least leave this lie out of your response. But you are bringing in a lie that wouldn't have even been necessary. Apparently you are a pathological liar. As I said above, I have a friend who ordered the same cam from you and got the REAL spec'd cam. Or at least one that was close enough so the difference wasn’t obvious. It certainly wasn't anything near what I got. So you haven't always gone out of your way to notify your customers of the alternative specs. If you did that with Yamil, he would have sent it along to get his self off the hook on the dispute. But he didn't.
Yes the customers were notified, and if your friend bought one from me a year ago he recieved a PWR. FRI has been out of business for about 3 years, I wouldnt even have had access to a true FRI littleboy. Yamil had this cam for almost a full year before you recieved it, you ever think it slipped his mind? Its not my responsibility to call the buyers of used parts to make sure it will work with their application.

Another lie - I never emailed a picture of the cam card to you since as you stated above, no cam card comes with the cams. I emailed you a picture of the end of the cam with the stampings so you could confirm that I had the part you intended me (or anyone who purchased this cam from you) to have. Which you did. Get your facts straight. You say it is the first time you saw the specs of the cam…. Then why the heck does your site give a complete set of specs for the real Littleboy cam????? If you don't know the specs, take the crap off your site and be honest about the cam you are selling.
Yes you did email me a picture of the end of the cam, You told me lunati was the manufacturer you also gave me all the specs on the cam, which I was suprised. Sorry I forgot it was the cam picture you sent me, then after I responded to Andy I recieved the picture of the cam card. Which in fact was the first time I saw the cam card and the specs which I did tell you that.

I have made my point. You are a bold faced liar. Not just forgetful or mistaken. The $250 credit you agreed to but will not grant me or admit to is only a small bit of the problem I have with your behavior. You are still selling that cam advertised in the same way, even after all the problems I have had. Showing no concern whatsoever for your customers experience or expenses if they are not willing to deal with this wildly different cam you are having shipped
You are not one of my customers Todd, you have never bought anything from me. I explained to you if you would have bought it from me I would have worked with you. When you started demanding compensation for a previously purchased part, and when you first called the shop acting like you did purchase directly from us, and with all your threats about lawyers and forums.......Im not gonna do much for you bro!
 

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As you will recall, I did call and asked for the stampings off your version of the Littleboy cam so I could make sure Yamil sent me the same part you sell. That was prior to installing it. You said you sent a original cam away to be copied. When I asked for the specs to be sure it was correct, you said I would have to send away a cam to get measured if I wanted all the details. Otherwise your site gives the basic specs on the cam.

You never mentioned alternative specs then and even after we were deep into the research on what happened, you only vaguely recalled authorizing Andy to ship an alternative but you weren't even sure if that was what I had or not.


So you are saying I shouldn't trust your site OR you (since I called and you yourself said it was a copy, not alternative) and should do my own research in the future on your products to make sure what I get from you is what I actually ordered?????????????

Boy, you have a brass set. Blame me for your dishonesty.
1. I never told you I sent out a FRI littleboy to be copied, If I was gonna copy one I would have taken it down to racer brown in baltimore and put it on the cam doctor and made one exactly the same, I told you I dont have an original FRI cam to have it checked. I told you if you have that cam sent to me I would take it and have it checked.

2. I did not tell you I autorized andy to ship a different cam than I had been selling as an alternative, I said to you on the phone I did not know what the cam specs were because they were not suppiled to me.

3. First off you didnt order from me directly, if you would have I would have called you within 24 hours of your order to let you know what you were recieving as I did with Yamil. I never said it was a copy I told you it was an improved repilca from PWR. What i am saying as the the consumer of used parts should research the part if you bought it previously owned part to make sure it is proper for your application.
 

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My dishonesty? I told you from day 1 we do not warrenty used parts, nor will we pay for any part of your install. You insisted that I was going to compenstate you!! You threatened negative forums postings and Lawyer.
Ok, I came here to remove my subscription from this thread as it is becoming a he said/she said thing.

But I cannot let another lie go.


I never once threatened outage on forums or getting an attorney during the research phase.... Never. That isn't my style. I gave you facts on the phone. You listened. And eventually agreed to do something that I would have considered an acceptable, albeit unfair, resolution to my issue.

The only time I mentioned putting the details on any forum is in my final call and voicemail after no return calls on the 3 previous attempts. In that message I said I would just post the details on the internet since you had made no steps to reconcile the issue. (people deserved to know you dont get what you pay for when ordering from you) Including continuing to advertise the same cam and the same stock Fri Littleboy specs.



Have a good day. I am done here. People can read and decide for themselves when making decisions on who to purchase from in the future.

Merry Christmas!!
 

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Again yet another lie from you to mislead the people of these forums, yes you did threaten negative forums posts and a lawyer during our conversation that lasted about an hour on the phone.

Seems funny neither myself nor Yamil will return your calls....I wonder why??????????????
 

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(people deserved to know you dont get what you pay for when ordering from you)
You have never ordered any thing from me Todd, the only thing you have done is insisted on being compensated for labor charges from us and Yamil on a part that was sold as previously owned from one of our customers. You HAVE threatened and you have done as much as you possibly could have to tarnish our image. Just seems really funny when you say that neither Yamil nor BWoody will return your calls......... Funny that you say your not demanding or threatening anything.
 

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Well we have been wondering when this was going to rear its ugly head.
*
I do agree with how Mike is handling this situation as tying to limit his liability as a business. However, I did try to eliminate this problem from ever happening.
*
Mike, I know you recall our conversation about a year ago that we asked you to remove the FRI Littleboy Replica*and all FRI products from your website since MWP*is now the exclusive dealer for all FRI products.*I
*
You did mention that you thought FRI was out of business and*you were*wanting to be able to provide the cam to customers. I explained to you that*Frank Racing did not go out of business. Frank Racing just no longer has an install shop.* We at MWP made a business deal with Steve that MWP will be the exclusive dealer for FRI products.* Since then, MWP now owns*all the FRI cams/specs that are listed on our website.
*
I offered you to become a dealer but you had already established a business relationship with PWR to provide a "replica" that you did not want to break.* I had expressed my concern about your customers*not*getting a FRI Littleboy and that you should not be advertising it as such.*You did mention that your description mentions "replica" and you felt it to be enough for customers to know they are not getting an acutal FRI Littleboy and that your sales team would explain what they are actually getting.*(I still dont understand that, but it's your company) If you are going to use the FRI product name in any sense, seems to me it would be best business practice to just offer the real deal.
*
I can understand Marauder's frustration here.* I don't believe he was trying to profit by any means but simply trying to get his money back from either the seller or from the origin of intial purchase being Bwoody.*
*
From talking with Mike in the past, I can tell he runs a tight ship and provides great bwoody products.* But we knew that one day this one little issue would come to life.*

In addition to the above mention dealing with maurader, MWP has also been contacted by other customers who were under the impression they were receiving an "authentic" FRI Littleboy cam to later realize it was the "replica". *When they confronted BWoody and PWR about this they were not able to cancel their purchase but only offered a credit with BWoody or PWR and these customers were ending up buying the cam twice to finally get what they originally set out to buy.
*
We would still like for Bwoody to become a dealer for FRI products thru MWP. The offer is still available if you are interested Mike so that this type of issue does not arise again. Or just remove any FRI littleboy reference and offer what you are selling under a completely different name or as a PWR designation.
 

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Everything I have purchased from Bwoody has been as described. When I met Mike at ATCO last year with Sbardy69, he was very helpful with all the questions I put towards him. Glad to see you as a vendor here Mike!

Craig
 

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I never once threatened outage on forums or getting an attorney during the research phase.... Never. That isn't my style.QUOTE]

I did want to get involved in this at all but i do have to chime in on this part. I remember you telling me that "you didnt want to have to get your lawyer involved". Also i recall after a voicemail you left here saying that you would go to the forums and "bash" Bwoodys. Last i did call and leave you a voicemail in which i never heard back from you.
 

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Well we have been wondering when this was going to rear its ugly head.
*
I do agree with how Mike is handling this situation as tying to limit his liability as a business. However, I did try to eliminate this problem from ever happening.
*
Mike, I know you recall our conversation about a year ago that we asked you to remove the FRI Littleboy Replica*and all FRI products from your website since MWP*is now the exclusive dealer for all FRI products.*I
*
You did mention that you thought FRI was out of business and*you were*wanting to be able to provide the cam to customers. I explained to you that*Frank Racing did not go out of business. Frank Racing just no longer has an install shop.* We at MWP made a business deal with Steve that MWP will be the exclusive dealer for FRI products.* Since then, MWP now owns*all the FRI cams/specs that are listed on our website.
*
I offered you to become a dealer but you had already established a business relationship with PWR to provide a "replica" that you did not want to break.* I had expressed my concern about your customers*not*getting a FRI Littleboy and that you should not be advertising it as such.*You did mention that your description mentions "replica" and you felt it to be enough for customers to know they are not getting an acutal FRI Littleboy and that your sales team would explain what they are actually getting.*(I still dont understand that, but it's your company) If you are going to use the FRI product name in any sense, seems to me it would be best business practice to just offer the real deal.
*
I can understand Marauder's frustration here.* I don't believe he was trying to profit by any means but simply trying to get his money back from either the seller or from the origin of intial purchase being Bwoody.*
*
From talking with Mike in the past, I can tell he runs a tight ship and provides great bwoody products.* But we knew that one day this one little issue would come to life.*

In addition to the above mention dealing with maurader, MWP has also been contacted by other customers who were under the impression they were receiving an "authentic" FRI Littleboy cam to later realize it was the "replica". *When they confronted BWoody and PWR about this they were not able to cancel their purchase but only offered a credit with BWoody or PWR and these customers were ending up buying the cam twice to finally get what they originally set out to buy.
*
We would still like for Bwoody to become a dealer for FRI products thru MWP. The offer is still available if you are interested Mike so that this type of issue does not arise again. Or just remove any FRI littleboy reference and offer what you are selling under a completely different name or as a PWR designation.

James, actually I do not recall ever speaking with you at all, I do however remember speaking with Chris at modern warfare. I spoke with him in reguards of re-selling the actual fri little boy from modern warfare, I was extremely interested the problem was is that Chris gave a price of $xxx.xx and I was to buy 10 at that price and I would actually make less profit on them than I make on cams from PWR or anywhere else for that matter, So we could not come to an agrreement and Chris never called back after he said he would. It's ok though I have removed all of the Frank Racing products off of my website, If customers want to buy a cam from me I will sell them a PWR cam or an HHP cam. Our own line of cams will be coming out of Racer Brown soon though, and if anyone knows the mopar market it would be them as they have been in the gen1 and gen 2 HEMI market for over 45 years. And we will be releasing our own cam that will be designed for customers that do not want to change out the OEM springs.
 

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Please keep comments confined to the initial complaint as much as possible although I realize most of this is necessary background information as it relates to the cam issue at hand. It's best to avoid a vendor on vendor problem with pointing of fingers. That should be handled privately.

Bernie
 

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Im curious when i used to work out of my garage? My shop isnt all that fancy or big, but we have been in the same space since day 1 and it isnt in my garage. I live on 15 acres so we built a 40 x 40 shop on our property to work out of. When we out-grow it, we will build a bigger shop, but i would be a fool to go buy commerical property when i have plenty of land i already own.

Anyhow, PWR will never copy another shops product. Its bad business and we would be very upset if someone did the same to us.

And to the MWP guys who stated that i wouldnt refund the customer. Your exactly right. I shipped exactly what was purchased and that customer felt he received the wrong product. I told him that he needed to take that up with bwoody. When he came back and said he wasnt getting any help, i went ahead and gave him store credit to help him out and he was perfectly happy with that.
 
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