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Hello everybody, I'm looking at having a pair of catted longtube headers installed. I know that the discussions about headers is all over the place on this forum and I also understand that other peformance additions to the Jeep play a roll but, I just want to ask straight out, are headers as a stand alone performance upgrade worth the cost and is there a noticeable performance gain to the Jeep? My ride is a 2006 with about 43k and I only have a Mopar CAI, 180 T-stat and Predator tune installed. Thanks' and good holidays to you.
 

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Depends on what size your getting. They do show about a 20rwhp gain. They did on my Jeep. It's all about the tune. This is just my personal opinion.
 

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Straight Up Beast SON!!!
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Depends on what size your getting. They do show about a 20rwhp gain. They did on my Jeep. It's all about the tune. This is just my personal opinion.
Yup corrected SAE numbers I gained 20 HP / 15 TQ with the Stainless Works 1 7/8" headers with Highflow cats...

I think he should go for a cam of some sort as thats easily a 30 HP gain right there versus headers..

Here is my thread to prove the gains on just headers...

http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59801
 
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Get a CRM tune first. Truthfully I didn't notice much difference after getting mine put in, and for the cash unless you are going FI later or want the sound they arent really worth it.
 
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Wintermute where did you get your OBX headers from and what did you use for O2 extensions?
 

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Straight Up Beast SON!!!
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One thing to consider with headers is that if you plan on staying NA then stick with 1.750" headers as you will make more torque down low around 3k rpm. I have SW 1.875" headers and did not gain anything down low and only saw the increase up top after 4k or so from what I seen on my Dyno sheet...
 
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I'd say headers are part of the build , if you are planing on staying with Headers/Intake/exhaust & tune I'd SAY DON'T WAIST YOUR MONEY .
 
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from everything i have read and seen, best bang is a tune/CAI/MPTCM/fri cam.

because the headers new are so expensive then most pay to get them installed, you will pay more money for less performance then a cam.
 

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If you're trying to get the most horsepower out of your vehicle get them...everything costs money...and certain things will only yield you a few horses, but that's just a part of chasing that number...I believe headers are great to have if you don't mind spending the money on them.
 

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Get a cam + headers and tune. You will definitely see significant power gains. And the headers sound sooo good..
 

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if you do get headers, do it for the sound, not the performance.

but.. consider that there's currently no straightforward way of passing emissions with headers and aftermarket cats in states that do the obdII scan. this will become a headache for you down the line. you'll need to either fab up custom midpipes with the oem cats welded in to pass emissions, or find alternate means of getting the sticker, all of which costs time and $$$. year in, year out.

this is the reason people avoid long tubes.
 
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Get a cam + headers and tune. You will definitely see significant power gains. And the headers sound sooo good..
Man I remember when we both got cutouts at the same time, but you had the SW headers installed..."Shit man, it's, it's borderline too loud. It's obnoxious loud." :D

get headers for the sound, not the performance.

plus consider that there's currently no straightforward way of passing emissions with headers and aftermarket cats in states that do the obdII scan. this will become a headache for you down the line. you'll need to either fab up custom midpipes with the oem cats welded in to pass emissions, or find alternate means of getting the sticker, all of which costs time and $$$. year in, year out.
Good point to bring up. I recently had to do some fabrication with my exhaust shop to pass emissions. It's more than a headache.

If you're staying NA I'd go 1 3/4". If you plan on a stroker and/or FI, go 1 7/8".

Skip @ Demon Performance is putting together a pretty sweet group buy on headers...check in with him if you decide on it.
 

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if you do get headers, do it for the sound, not the performance.

but.. consider that there's currently no straightforward way of passing emissions with headers and aftermarket cats in states that do the obdII scan. this will become a headache for you down the line. you'll need to either fab up custom midpipes with the oem cats welded in to pass emissions, or find alternate means of getting the sticker, all of which costs time and $$$. year in, year out.

this is the reason people avoid long tubes.
I passed emissions relatively easy. I didn't have to change anything in the exhaust.
1st time I went to emissions I didn't "fail" but my ecu read not enough memory so they asked me to come back.
The 2nd time I reset the codes w/ the rear 02 sensors on and drive for about 25-30 miles. Pulled into the emissions place, turned off the engine and they scanned my OBDII and I passed. IMO people over react about this too much. Even if I failed I could just ask my mechanic to write a fake repair slip for repairs totaling over $700 and emissions will be waved for 2 years.

No reason for the headache ;)
 

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Man I remember when we both got cutouts at the same time, but you had the SW headers installed..."Shit man, it's, it's borderline too loud. It's obnoxious loud." :D


Good point to bring up. I recently had to do some fabrication with my exhaust shop to pass emissions. It's more than a headache.

If you're staying NA I'd go 1 3/4". If you plan on a stroker and/or FI, go 1 7/8".

Skip @ Demon Performance is putting together a pretty sweet group buy on headers...check in with him if you decide on it.
LOL agreed! The big SW headers w/ no cats and cutouts is INSANELY loud! Not to mention the performance gains are nice too. Can't argue w/ a 20 WHP gain.
 

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I passed emissions relatively easy. I didn't have to change anything in the exhaust.
1st time I went to emissions I didn't "fail" but my ecu read not enough memory so they asked me to come back.
The 2nd time I reset the codes w/ the rear 02 sensors on and drive for about 25-30 miles. Pulled into the emissions place, turned off the engine and they scanned my OBDII and I passed.
i read the thread you started about that, http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52171

after resetting the mil, by doing the short drives and cooldowns you completed the monitor drive traces. in your case, the pcm tested the secondary o2 sensors A-OK and did not trigger a mil while also leaving the sensors in a "ready" state. this led you to pass the obdII test.

more info on chrysler's drive traces can be found here: http://img.neons.org/archives/chrysler_drive_cycle.pdf

as for the rest of us with headers & non-oem cats, the moment the emissions drive trace is complete and the secondary o2 sensors go "ready", the pcm triggers a mil due to not being able to test the sensors successfully.

to sum it up, if you reset the mil and go get tested, you fail due to the secondary o2 sensors not being "ready". but the moment you complete the necessary drive traces to mark the sensors ready, the pcm throws the mil, which gets you failed as well.

i'm not saying your account isn't true, but it is certainly atypical; no-one else that i know of has been able to duplicate your results. as such, it's not an account that people considering headers should base their decision on.
 

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i read the thread you started about that, http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52171

after resetting the mil, by doing the short drives and cooldowns you completed the monitor drive traces. in your case, the pcm tested the secondary o2 sensors A-OK and did not trigger a mil while also leaving the sensors in a "ready" state. this led you to pass the obdII test.

more info on chrysler's drive traces can be found here: http://img.neons.org/archives/chrysler_drive_cycle.pdf

as for the rest of us with headers & non-oem cats, the moment the emissions drive trace is complete and the secondary o2 sensors go "ready", the pcm triggers a mil due to not being able to test the sensors successfully.

to sum it up, if you reset the mil and go get tested, you fail due to the secondary o2 sensors not being "ready". but the moment you complete the necessary drive traces to mark the sensors ready, the pcm throws the mil, which gets you failed as well.

i'm not saying your account isn't true, but it is certainly atypical; no-one else that i know of has been able to duplicate your results. as such, it's not an account that people considering headers should base their decision on.
I have SW 1 7/8" headers with Highflow cats and can't go more then 15 miles or else I trigger a code.... Rmon's solution is the best bet for all of us...
 

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i read the thread you started about that, http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52171

after resetting the mil, by doing the short drives and cooldowns you completed the monitor drive traces. in your case, the pcm tested the secondary o2 sensors A-OK and did not trigger a mil while also leaving the sensors in a "ready" state. this led you to pass the obdII test.

more info on chrysler's drive traces can be found here: http://img.neons.org/archives/chrysler_drive_cycle.pdf

as for the rest of us with headers & non-oem cats, the moment the emissions drive trace is complete and the secondary o2 sensors go "ready", the pcm triggers a mil due to not being able to test the sensors successfully.

to sum it up, if you reset the mil and go get tested, you fail due to the secondary o2 sensors not being "ready". but the moment you complete the necessary drive traces to mark the sensors ready, the pcm throws the mil, which gets you failed as well.

i'm not saying your account isn't true, but it is certainly atypical; no-one else that i know of has been able to duplicate your results. as such, it's not an account that people considering headers should base their decision on.

This is correct. I have exactly the same setup as RMON and cannot get my O2 or Cat monitor to go to Ready. So I get no codes but I can't pass emissions. Same exact situation I had with my 5.7L Hemi truck with LTs. If you have to pass emissions, headers are absolutely not worth it.

Think of it this way:

PROS
20 hp gain (maybe)

CONS
Expensive parts
Expensive install
If you do the install yourself it is worse than being waterboarded
Can't pass emissions
Exhaust leaks can be an issue

Hell for some of the prices people have posted, you are nearly at the cost of a supercharger to just do headers + install. And a supercharger is MUCH easier to install yourself than headers.
 

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Straight Up Beast SON!!!
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This is correct. I have exactly the same setup as RMON and cannot get my O2 or Cat monitor to go to Ready. So I get no codes but I can't pass emissions. Same exact situation I had with my 5.7L Hemi truck with LTs. If you have to pass emissions, headers are absolutely not worth it.

Think of it this way:

PROS
20 hp gain (maybe)

CONS
Expensive parts
Expensive install
If you do the install yourself it is worse than being waterboarded
Can't pass emissions
Exhaust leaks can be an issue

Hell for some of the prices people have posted, you are nearly at the cost of a supercharger to just do headers + install. And a supercharger is MUCH easier to install yourself than headers.
Can you clarify exactly what type of headers and cats you have that you can not pass emissions? Because me and Rmon have been talking and he put easily 2000 miles on his setup with the stock cats along with his SW 1/78" headers like I have. I as well have to pass Emissions in March with my jeep and have to get the ball rolling with my new midpipes that will have my stock cats in them...

Thanks!
 
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