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Discussion Starter #1
But was afraid to ask BuilderBill :D

I finally got the valve body from Bill today to disassemble





Look who makes it.



Upon visual inspection I find lots of little broken pieces and shavings in various nooks and crannys





Comming soon more pics LOL

Thanks Bill
I'll call you soon with a couple mods to try.

Jeff
 

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Jeff,
That valve body came from a Jeep that had a broken planetary in the output shaft.
It is VERY unusual to find a STOCKER (unless the guy took off the spray and then took it in to Viper Dan)with a broken planetary.
It actually drove in with no problem other than a little noise.
A core like that is a throw away for me.
I will not use a valve body that has been through bad history...it is extremely difficult to get ALL the crap out of all those passages.

Good luck with the valve body!
Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #3
.A core like that is a throw away for me.
I will not use a valve body that has been through bad history...it is extremely difficult to get ALL the crap out of all those passages.
Bill

Thats good to know Bill, as Chrysler has an internal memo that says to the dealer techs to actually clean the body if there is a problem and reinstall to try to repair before Chrysler will actually pay for an exchange valve body.

Valvebody
Part Numbers:
52108213A$
Issue Description:
Do not replace the entire Valvebody for an ISOLATED ELECTRICAL ISSUE such as solenoid, speed sensor, or temperature sensor. Also, do not replace the entire Valvebody due to damage of the 13 pin electrical connector. The leadframe itself P.N. 52108308AB contains all the circuitry, speed sensors, and temperature sensors and should be ordered and replaced preventing the unnecessary replacement of the entire Valvebody. In the event of a solenoid fault, you may also want to replace the specified solenoid.


There is a known issue with a 3-4 shift flare or Neutraling out on the 3-4 shift. In most cases this event is accompanied by a P0730, P1731, P0734, and/or P0733 Incorrect Gear Ratio codes. The cause of this event is ferrous or Aluminum debris in the 3-4 Shift Pressure and/or 3-4 Holding valves. Rather than replacing the VB;

1.) Remove the solenoids, leadframe assembly, and bolts securing upper to lower valvebody

2.) Lift upper housing off the VB and turn over. No need to clean the lower housing.

3.) Remove the steel endplate covering the all the 3-4 valves.

4.) Remove the 4 valves and flush out the bores and valves with a solvent such as mineral spirits. Contamination is known to be very small. Hold the housing vertically and flush the bore out generously. Flushing over filter paper (coffee filter) will allow you to observe the debris.

5.) Re-assemble the VB and re-install to roadtest.

6.) Only if the valves are still sticky after the flush or if the 3-4 shift issue persists, should the VB be replaced.

LOP 21-95-01-51 provides 1.2 hours for this repair.


______________________________________

Contact Us at [email protected] for feedback related ONLY to this GPOP Tech Tip. DO NOT email regarding repair procedures unrelated to this Tech Tip or part order inquires. Please include the Part Number (s) and Tech Tip Part Description of the Tech Tip you are referencing for our tracking system.


I guess your already ahead of Chrysler for doing that.

There was actually a bulletin I can't find right now where Chrysler actually accused the dealer techs of putting shavings in the valve body to get a warantee transmissions
:D
 

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Thats good to know Bill, as Chrysler has an internal memo that says to the dealer techs to actually clean the body if there is a problem and reinstall to try to repair before Chrysler will actually pay for an exchange valve body.

Valvebody
Part Numbers:
52108213A$
Issue Description:
Do not replace the entire Valvebody for an ISOLATED ELECTRICAL ISSUE such as solenoid, speed sensor, or temperature sensor. Also, do not replace the entire Valvebody due to damage of the 13 pin electrical connector. The leadframe itself P.N. 52108308AB contains all the circuitry, speed sensors, and temperature sensors and should be ordered and replaced preventing the unnecessary replacement of the entire Valvebody. In the event of a solenoid fault, you may also want to replace the specified solenoid.


There is a known issue with a 3-4 shift flare or Neutraling out on the 3-4 shift. In most cases this event is accompanied by a P0730, P1731, P0734, and/or P0733 Incorrect Gear Ratio codes. The cause of this event is ferrous or Aluminum debris in the 3-4 Shift Pressure and/or 3-4 Holding valves. Rather than replacing the VB;

1.) Remove the solenoids, leadframe assembly, and bolts securing upper to lower valvebody

2.) Lift upper housing off the VB and turn over. No need to clean the lower housing.

3.) Remove the steel endplate covering the all the 3-4 valves.

4.) Remove the 4 valves and flush out the bores and valves with a solvent such as mineral spirits. Contamination is known to be very small. Hold the housing vertically and flush the bore out generously. Flushing over filter paper (coffee filter) will allow you to observe the debris.

5.) Re-assemble the VB and re-install to roadtest.

6.) Only if the valves are still sticky after the flush or if the 3-4 shift issue persists, should the VB be replaced.

LOP 21-95-01-51 provides 1.2 hours for this repair.


______________________________________

Contact Us at [email protected] for feedback related ONLY to this GPOP Tech Tip. DO NOT email regarding repair procedures unrelated to this Tech Tip or part order inquires. Please include the Part Number (s) and Tech Tip Part Description of the Tech Tip you are referencing for our tracking system.


I guess your already ahead of Chrysler for doing that.

There was actually a bulletin I can't find right now where Chrysler actually accused the dealer techs of putting shavings in the valve body to get a warantee transmissions
:D
To clean it correctly, it would be a day long job, NOT 1.2 hours.
I'm with Viper Dan....pitch the damn thing and don't worry about it.
Chrysler & Mercedes both sell rebuilt valve body's....they have a core charge of like $60 bucks retail.
Bill
 

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You know, with all the tranny talk lately..It would be nice to see a tweaked TCM from chrysler..Think that day will ever happen?..I'm not holding my breath!

GC
 

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To clean it correctly, it would be a day long job, NOT 1.2 hours.
I'm with Viper Dan....pitch the damn thing and don't worry about it.
Chrysler & Mercedes both sell rebuilt valve body's....they have a core charge of like $60 bucks retail.
Bill
Ahh I am glad I am not a chysler/jeep tech any more. Love those high paying warranty jobs. It is no wonder the techs try everything they can to void the warranties.
 

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Coksmith&Master-Pintsman
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Neat pics Jeff!

Interestingly enough everything is coming full circle for me. Its amazing the little things you notice when you get used to driving a vehicle. Well before my transmission started slipping, I'd notice slight hesitation on the 3-4 shift... it would take just a fraction of a second "too long" to shift into 4th at WOT, now I know why. A few months later and it began to slip badly out of the hole.

I know you can't spill the beans, but what did you do the valve body? For some people like me an automatic transmission is a PFM black box. Amazingly I could write calculus formulas for theoretical power outputs of internal combustion engines, but I understand very little about slushboxes and how they manage to shift gears. The TQ converter is a simple concept but anything behind it is mysterious.
 

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Aweful lot of plastic on that part. Assuming it is constantly immersed in ATF, sure it will breakdown in a "predictable" manner = greater than 36K miles but less than you'd hope....just another thing I need to buy :mad:
 

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"guy with the crazy Jeep"
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You know, with all the tranny talk lately..It would be nice to see a tweaked TCM from chrysler..Think that day will ever happen?..I'm not holding my breath!

GC
It will not happen! Believe me, I know... :boohoo:
 

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It will not happen! Believe me, I know... :boohoo:
BJB, since you have probably one of the best fabricators on the planet on your team, have you explored the possbilities of putting a Tremec TR6060 in there?

It seems to me if you had full power over the TCM, you could avoid the lack of signal from the PCM.
 

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"guy with the crazy Jeep"
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BJB, since you have probably one of the best fabricators on the planet on your team, have you explored the possbilities of putting a Tremec TR6060 in there?

It seems to me if you had full power over the TCM, you could avoid the lack of signal from the PCM.
We have looked at those possibilities :D
 

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Neat pics Jeff!

Interestingly enough everything is coming full circle for me. Its amazing the little things you notice when you get used to driving a vehicle. Well before my transmission started slipping, I'd notice slight hesitation on the 3-4 shift... it would take just a fraction of a second "too long" to shift into 4th at WOT, now I know why. A few months later and it began to slip badly out of the hole.

I know you can't spill the beans, but what did you do the valve body? For some people like me an automatic transmission is a PFM black box. Amazingly I could write calculus formulas for theoretical power outputs of internal combustion engines, but I understand very little about slushboxes and how they manage to shift gears. The TQ converter is a simple concept but anything behind it is mysterious.
Winston,
As a Mechanical Engineer, who has researched the hell out of this valve body...the valve body AIN'T your problem.
If you check back about a thousand posts ago, We initially had the 1-2, 2-3 shift pretty well covered. We did NOT realize some of your Florida Buds (and BJB) would then have shift problems with 3-4.
As you know, these items have been covered with the high torque capacity NAG1.
We have a way to make the shift faster and harder.......you would NOT want to pay an additional $600 (our cost of the parts) for the mod to your valve body.

We are trying like hell to keep this as affordable as possible.

I have been working my ass off to make the next version as cost effective as we can. Not everyone can afford the Kings version! ;)

Please realize that I am back and forth to the metals lab here in Charlotte analyzing the parts that will eventually break. It would be easier to try to substitute the W5A900 / W5A1000 parts into your NAG1, but most people don't have the Kings money!
Oh...those parts require a new case, which requires a new valve body etc,.

Winston...we are designing / manufacturing these NAG1 units for guys like you, and I'm doing my best to keep the cost down.
Eddie and I are not standing still even with the new units....we already know when you reach a certain rwhp (hopefully well over 1000 rwhp) what WILL happen and we will have a cost effective solution already to go.
Bill
 

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Nice writeup Bill. I dont have any plans to cross the 1000 tick at the wheels, aiming more for 1000 crank with 750whp on race gas, 93 octane tunes will be much lower for daily driving, probably 550-600whp... thats a lot to ask out of a 6.1L.
 

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BJB, since you have probably one of the best fabricators on the planet on your team, have you explored the possbilities of putting a Tremec TR6060 in there?

It seems to me if you had full power over the TCM, you could avoid the lack of signal from the PCM.

You've never ridden with BJB have you? :) If we put a 6060 in there, we would be looking for a clutch that can hold up to Brian's driving! Then we have to teach him to power shift. It wouldn't take long before he decided he didn't want to push a clutch and has Bryan install a LENCO! Like Brian said, there is something in the works....

J
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I know you can't spill the beans, but what did you do the valve body? For some people like me an automatic transmission is a PFM black box. Amazingly I could write calculus formulas for theoretical power outputs of internal combustion engines, but I understand very little about slushboxes and how they manage to shift gears. The TQ converter is a simple concept but anything behind it is mysterious.
Well Winston this is why I started this thread so to give people a better understanding of the why's and how's of the Jeeps transmission and how everything interconnects with the hardware (the torque converter, clutches, brake clutches, valves) and the damn softwarewe all hate (TCM, PCM. ABS, FDCM) and why even with some TCM tuning ability promised by some aftermarket vendors that may create even bigger problems in the whole vehicle Can Bus system.

As far as the valvebody is concerned there is only a couple things I'd like Bill to try to circumvent and modify the hydraulic pressures in a couple circuits but other than that as he said there really is no mystery here (just how it all works and the way the Daimler engineers create a new transmission control system)

Alright there are 6 electrical solenoids identified below, now these first two are the biggest pain in the a$$es as far as whats happening with the overall shifting stratagy, and why lots of problems develope and I'll get to them later, Items 6 and 7







The next ones are the actual electrical shifting solenoids for each shift group (1-5)





















 

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Great Info,and You Guys Are Coming Into Some Good Remedies,for All Of Us,and Thnx For Trying To Keep Prices Down.keep Up The Good Work.........and Watch -out For The Hennespies On The Forum Now.....
Gerald
 

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Discussion Starter #17
and Watch -out For The Hennespies On The Forum Now.....
Gerald
Actually I welcome the ability of the competition to review what we know here, it makes it much harder for them to claim some super - duper new modification that could never work contrary to what is presented here.

The more informed the people are on the boards the less an unscruplious vendor can take advantage.

I certainly won't give out any BB/SHR NAG1 or others inside information, but what I do is explain how Chrysler designed it and how it works in everyday operation.


Jeff
 

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Jeff, once again I am amazed at the collaboration of great minds on this board!! My Dad and I eagerly await your posts, and those from Bill and others, with writeups like this!! :) :)
 

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Man, I feel so stupid when I read thru threads like these! ROR!! You guys are just too damn smart! Glad you're on our side! I've learned so much since I joined this forum. Great work guys! Thanks for all the info and all your hard work and keep it up! I really do appreciate it all and when I understand enough to even put a question together I know who to ask! :bigthumb:
 

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Subscribing to this. Good info guys.
 
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