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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and am having a very serious issue with my Jeep. In February 2012 I purchased a brand new 2012 Jeep SRT8 from Chrysler Dodge Jeep in Paramus NJ. Up until a week and a half ago everything was fine. I was driving on the highway and when I got off the exit my jeep stalled. When I restarted it I heard a very loud clicking sound. Kind of sounded like a piece of metal being thrown into a fan. I pulled over and the truck stalled again.

I placed a call over to roadside assistance and about an hour later the flatbed showed up to tow my truck. This is where the nightmare began. Once on the flatbed I was informed that my truck will not be towed to the dealership because they were closed and that it would stay at the towing facility overnight and then towed again in the morning to the dealer. I said the dealer has a night drop but the driver said this is what Chrysler requested. Then I was left on the road!!! That's right, the driver left me on the road and told me to cross the highway and take a bus home!!! Also Chryslers call. My truck was towed and here I was on the side of the highway.

I quickly called customer service to find out what the hell was going on. The service rep gave me an extreme attitude and tells me that it's a courtesy for them to tow my car and my responsibility to get home. ARE YOU KIDDING ME. First of all, it's Chryslers responsibility to tow the $62000 tin can they sold me and a courtesy to at least get me near my house, less than 13 miles away. I was then told that they do not hire the towing companies. Oh really, then who does? Ford? GM? Toyota? Then this joker tells me that I have to pay for the tow and get reinbursed by Chrysler. NOT Cool.

The next morning, Thursday of last week, I waited at the dealership for my truck to finally arrive. The mechanic spends over an hour with his laptop hooked up to my truck, claiming to find nothing, but the truck still won't start. I was then denied a loaner by the service manager because I was told he wasn't sure if that was covered under my warranty. More BS. I contacted SRT customer service and told them the whole story. The service rep was very surprised that I was left on the road and denied a loaner vehicle. On Saturday I was told the diagnosis wasn't complete and that they would let me know by monday if I can at least get a loaner. Not get me one, but let me know.

Then the dreaded Monday morning comes. The service advisor tells me that I need a new motor and that they're not covering it under warranty. Why? Because there was a Hennessey air intake installed and they found a foreign object in the motor causing piston #8 to cease and that they're assuming the object came from the intake. I was extremely upset and wondered how they are denying my warranty over an assumption. Then the service guy demands that I either come down and leave a deposit for a new motor totaling $20,000 or I would have to pay per day for them to store it. ARE THESE GUYS FOR REAL?!

I took a ride to the dealer to see what was going on. The service manager then shows me a flattened bolt that they claim came from the bracket holding the air filter in place. Just so we're all on the same page, the bolt they're talking about is on the outside of the air intake. I then asked if I could see the intake and guess what? THE BOLT WAS STILL THERE!!!!! Then the plot thickens. They tell me "well whoever put this in must have lost the bolt and then replaced it" Once again another assumption. CHRYSLER DENIED MY WARRANTY COVERAGE BASED ON AN ASSUMPTION. NO PROOF, ASSUMPTIONS!!! How do I know my vehicle wasn't touched when it sat at some tow yard in Jersey City overnight where they sent it? How?

I got so upset that I had the truck towed out of there and to a private garage so I can avoid their "storage fees" I was then told I have to pay $680 for them tearing the motor down since there was no more warranty. Then they threw all the motor parts in the back seat. No boxes just heads, oil, and antifreeze all over the interior of my god dam truck!!!! These guys made me sick to my stomach. Now what? I emailed Ralph Gilles and have gotten no response. WHY AM I BEING IGNORED?

I don't know what to do. Chrysler has made no effort on their end to do anything. I didn't even get an apology for being left on the highway. Didn't even get an answer why my truck was taken out of mine and their possession and left at some tow yard. Ralph Gilles himself is ignoring me. Nobody will talk to me. Does anyone have any advice other than hiring a lawyer and suing them all?

Anyone?
 

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Man that really sucks to hear but doesn't surprise me that they are trying to get out of a engine rebuild, sometimes people try multiple dealers when they have a warranty claim problem and sometimes find a dealer that will agree to cover you, not sure if that will work for your situation but try everything and anything you can to get that motor fixed and if it does come down to need a engine rebuild definitely don't have the dealer do it
 

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That is a sad story. If its true the air intake voids the warranty maybe they should show you the proof it did break the engine? Or did they? Is the bolt the proof it went into the engine? As far as Mr. Giles answering your email I am sure he is slammed daily with emails. I would get in touch with the New Car Sales Manager of the dealership of purchase and have a meeting of the minds to workout a solution.


CP
 

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They have to prove the CAI caused the problem.
If you do go to another dealer do not mention what the other dealer told you, let them diagnose it.


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ok, there are factory techs on here that can chime in with first hand knowledge of how this actually applies but ill give you my .02

first of all NO DEALER ANYWHERE for ANY MANUFACTURER ever makes the determination as to whether an issue is covered by warranty or is denied....the AUTOMAKER itself makes that call...now yes they do use input from the dealers technicians and testing but the actual decision is made by the company...with this being said its not uncommon for mfgs to send out field service reps to do an onsite evaluation of your issue to determine more accurately IF the issue should be covered or denied.

the following is a good read and federal law

Fortunately, we as modders are covered under federal law by the Magnuson-Moss Warrenty Act of 1975.

Under this federal statute, a manufacturer who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle is prohibited from requiring you to use a service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.


Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warranty, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.

Also reference Magnuson

For the actual legislation you can reference 15 U.S.C. § 2302 at this site here. United States Code: Title 15,CHAPTER 50—CONSUMER PRODUCT WARRANTIES | LII / Legal Information Institute

This is a good article from the flowmaster website.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act was created in 1975 to protect consumers from invalid denial of warranty claims. Under the provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, an automotive dealership/carmaker cannot void your warranty simply because your vehicle has been modified with aftermarket parts. They (the manufacturers) have to prove that the failure was the direct result of the installed aftermarket part. Unfortunately, too many people have gone to a dealer to have warranty service performed on their modified vehicle only to have the dealer refuse to cover the unrelated defective items. The dealer usually states, that because of the aftermarket parts installed, the warranty is void (without ever attempting to determine whether or not the aftermarket part caused the problem). If in any case, the dealer just lifted the hood, saw the modifications, and stated that the warranty was void based on what they saw (without verifying that the failure was due to the aftermarket installation), the dealer would be in violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. The cause of the failure must be searched out and proven in order for the carmaker to void a warranty. If you’re having problems regarding this issue, please contact the Specialty Equipment Market Association www.sema.org for more information regarding consumer’s rights in relation to performance aftermarket parts.
and, as best i can tell the Hennessy intake is a K&N unit...K&N has a long standing history of top notch service both before and after the sale...the following is a letter issued by K&N's CEO in relation to Mfgs claiming that installation of their products voids factory warranty

http://www.knfilters.com/warrantyletter.htm

Letter from K&N Regarding U.S. Vehicle Warranty and K&N Replacement Filters
Dear K&N Consumer:

K&N Engineering, Inc., is informed that some automobile dealers and manufacturers are telling their customers that the factory warranty on their motor vehicles is "void," if an original equipment (OE) replacement air filter, manufactured by K&N, has been installed on their vehicles. K&N finds such instances disturbing, and while it does not purport to give legal advice, K&N would like to refer you to the federal Consumer Product Warranties law, often referred to as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which states, in part, in title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c), as follows:


"No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if -

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor."


Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer. K&N is unaware of any exemption or waiver granted by the FTC to any motor vehicle manufacturer, which pertains to air filters or oil filters.

K&N interprets this law to also prohibit the motor vehicle manufacturer from restricting your use of a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, etc. K&N's interpretation of this law is consistent with the interpretation given it by the FTC, the government agency responsible for the interpretation and enforcement of this federal law.

The rules and regulations adopted by the FTC, to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700.10, which states, in relevant part (with specific language highlighted by K&N), as follows:


(c) No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused."


We think this FTC rule is pretty clear and unambiguous. Please note that the FTC requires the "warrantor" (this would, generally, be your motor vehicle manufacturer) to "demonstrate" that the defect in or damage to your vehicle was caused by your installation or use of a K&N air or oil filter, or other "unauthorized" part, before a warranty claim can be denied. We contend that this requires credible proof as to the cause of a failure and not merely your dealer's guess, speculation or unfounded opinion as to the cause.

Therefore, K&N considers any threat to void your factory warranty, or the actual voiding of your factory warranty, solely for the installation of a K&N replacement air filter or oil filter, to be a violation of federal law.

The foregoing addresses only your rights and protection under federal law. Of course, you may have greater rights under the consumer warranty laws applicable in your state.

If you have encountered a motor vehicle dealer, who has failed and refused to "demonstrate" or prove, as federal law requires, that your K&N air filter necessitated a repair for which warranty coverage has been denied, or a manufacturer, who refuses to perform warranty repairs on your vehicle, merely because you have installed a K&N replacement air filter or based on inaccurate information from your dealer, then we ask that you request that the dealer or manufacturer set forth, in writing, the warranty denial, together with a written statement as to the specific reasons for the denial of warranty repairs, and that you send a copy of this written statement to K&N. We also ask that you direct your dealer and manufacturer to the federal law quoted above. K&N assists consumers in this situation through the K&N Consumer Protection Pledge. For details please go to the K&N website at KNFilters.com or contact our customer service department at 800-858-3333.Please keep in mind that a motor vehicle dealer is, generally, not the "warrantor" of your vehicle. Your dealer may be assisting you as much as possible in getting the manufacturer to cover repairs of your vehicle under warranty, but the factory may still refuse to cover the repairs. If this happens, then there may be nothing further that the dealership can do, and it should not be blamed for the actions of your vehicle's warrantor. A dealership's control over the approval of a warranty repair is usually limited to properly diagnosing and reporting the cause of the repair. K&N only takes issue with those dealerships who advise consumers that the mere installation of a K&N air filter on a vehicle "voids" the factory warranty, or they convey to the manufacturer an unsubstantiated opinion or conclusion that a K&N air filter caused an engine or component failure, without any objective proof to support such a statement, which results in the denial of a legitimate warranty repair.


Sincerely,

STEVE ROGERS,
President & CEO
K&N Engineering, Inc.
if the bolt in question was shown to be in place when you arrived at dealer to inspect then my opinion would be that any attorney worth their salt could have this resolved very quickly, and request the the mfg be responsible for legal services as they are liable for you having to incur legal aid cost as a direct result of their mishandling of your claim....

like i said though...just my .02
 

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100% get a lawyer involved. That is just ridiculous. In no way should you be treated like that, $15K car or $65K car customer service is customer service.
 

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I can't stand lawyers but in this case lawyer up. That is total bs and I would call the cops and file a report for damage to property when they messed up your interior.
 

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Somehow I think there is more to this story. I can't see Chrysler telling a tow company to take it back to the towing company yard, there would be a charge for storage. I have never heard of a tow company leaving someone along side the road. The dealership itself is not going to deny something like this. It's money in their pocket, it does not matter if the customer pays or Chrysler. If it get's denied, that would be a Chrysler rep. Then Chrysler is going to have to prove that it was the CAI that caused the problem. Which would be highly unlikely. So there has to be more to this story somewhere. If this is truly the case of them blaming just the CAI, then an attorney would get this handled in no time.
 

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Wow!!!!!!!!
 

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All I was shown was a smashed bolt that anyone with a hammer could've created. The piston and head were mangled. But there is no proof of that screw entering the motor from the intake. Especially when the screw is still there. The intake was installed in February almost four months ago. I asked them to prove the bolt came from the intake and they said they couldn't but they have photos and the bolt and that's all the proof they need. I guess it's lawyer time.
 

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Oh man, this just makes me sick! Any time I've used Roadside Assistance, (only twice luckily) they first asked if I was in a safe place. In your case, I don't believe for one second that they would have required that you be left on the side of the road. There's too much of a liability issue. Something really stinks here. I could see the towing company wanting to get a storage charge out of this. Get a lawyer & lets just see how this thing unfolds.
As for a loaner, I think that is a dealer decision. My dealer in Maple Ridge have treated me extremely well over the last 5 years. I live an hour & 40 min from them. Yes there is a closer dealer but I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. It's worth the peace of mind that my oil changes & warranty work is being handled correctly & with integrity. And oh yes, I ALWAYS get a loaner even if the car isn't there overnight.
 

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All I was shown was a smashed bolt that anyone with a hammer could've created. The piston and head were mangled. But there is no proof of that screw entering the motor from the intake. Especially when the screw is still there. The intake was installed in February almost four months ago. I asked them to prove the bolt came from the intake and they said they couldn't but they have photos and the bolt and that's all the proof they need. I guess it's lawyer time.

Yup, lawyer up indeed. This is how dealers bully customers. They assume everyone is broke, and won't be able to pay for a lawyer.....so they tell you things like "that's all the evidence we need".....and it is if you let it end there. Drag their ass into court, make them prove where that bolt came from, and then show the judge what they did to your interior when you wouldn't be muscled by them. This shit burns me up.......:mad:

F'n Chrysler man....Ralph, you better step it up hoss. How many of these horror stories do we have to hear before you do something? What a F'n disgrace....... spend $65K, and you get treated like an a$$hole. :fight:
 

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ImageUploadedByAG Free1370811861.704511.jpg


Bolts get into motors and cause damage. That is an imprint of the bolt on custom pistons.
I am the poster child for this and it seems I need to make room on the podium for you. Mine happened during my turbo build. Was a fun time.

Sorry to hear your troubles
You need to link the bolt to whoever installed wherever the bolt came from.
It s a shitty situation and no one will be on your side. Definitely get a lawyer. Or just buy a new 6.4 shortblock and drop it in


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Post on Ralph's twitter and you will get a response. That's what I had to do about my bumper.
 

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I don't know which way to go with this one.... its a sh1itty situation. All I would do is try and prove their theory wrong anyways I could. First of all, this "bolt"... why would their be a bolt on the INSIDE of the CAI that could potentially come lose and go into the throttle body, then the manifold, and eventually into one of the pistons via the intake valve?

You said that the bolt was still there... which bolt? The one that supposedly did the damge or is this a different one? Figure out exactly where the bolt (they said) did the damage supposedly came from. Trace its supposed path, and make sure its physically capable of making it from A to B along the path they claim, make sure it can actually make it past the intake valve at maximum lift. If it can't, then they're lying to you.

Make sure the bolt they are showing you is actually the bolt from your unit. Call Hennessey and tell them the story, maybe you can glean information to prove it was not that CAI bolt... Wait.. never mind, scratch that idea.

If its simply your word vs their word, then yes, you can go the legal route.

If you can't get the rig fixed however, and it comes down to a ridiculous battle between you and chrysler, maybe even hennessey involved, then get your motor fixed somewhere else besides the dealership. They'll rob you blind for $20,000. When in reality, as long as the cylinder can be bored and re-honed (if there is no wall damage), and you just need a new piston and head work... you're looking at just a few thousand dollars with someone like Mondern Muscle, HHP, or LPM, all good shops that will take care of you for an upgrade you might have done in the future anyways, at a fraction of what the dealer is going to charge just to get you back to stock power.
 

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Do you have any pictures of your head and piston? I had a long going problem with my transmission and i called Chrysler every single day and kept calling them for two weeks and then they finally started to get the ball moving. I hope all this works out for you man. For $20,000 you can have a built engine and transmission and money left over.
 
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