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CAI Dyno Sheets

8K views 73 replies 21 participants last post by  ge2 
#1 · (Edited)
THIS IS MY THREAD......I dont want any sniveling.....after it was all said and done I'm going back to a stock set up using the JEEP lower box and a LX 3" to 4" rubber tube and upper lid and enough said on that subject.

You will find three runs posted 1-4 were last weeks 5-8 were this weeks......run 6 is the Factory modified box/K&N and that one is my mine:D.

So here they are in black in white with intake air temperatures, coolant temperatures, air fuel .......and we used a huge 5x5 hurricane fan with the hood closed on all runs.

Dont just look at the final #'s you need to really look at the curve after 4,500 rpm

The air in Cali is more polluted than last week so I figured that is why it is down a bit from last week BUT the comparison was done back to back logging the data......and coolant temp does make a difference. For you more analytical types I have the line by line data/rpm log but cant seem to post, but can email it to you.



I know alot of you will go to last weeks so here it is.......coolant temperature (ECT) as I showed in 06 truly affects hp/tq more than any other factor
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Maybe you should have a mod lock your thread so no one else can post in it?

I also don't buy the GSM making more power than the Woody, I'm guessing you used their dyno/facility to do your testing? So many people including Claude, myself, Mr. Freeze, wasntme, etc. have dyno and track tested the BWoody CAI to a gain vs. stock, aftermarket, and even modified aftermarket pieces. Even if you didn't have serious ill will toward BWoody your test (done at a competing facility no less) would definitely qualify as an anomaly.

Do you think GSM is confident enough in their product to let an objective third party perform the same test at an independant facility? I'll pay for dyno time if they send me a CAI (which I will return immediately after testing). If it really makes more power I'll even buy it. Just a thought, and a serious chance for them to net some credibility.
 
#3 ·
Maybe you should have a mod lock your thread so no one else can post in it?

No..... I dont want any flames or arguments. I have the line by line data/rpm log but they dont seem to post. RPM shows, as you know, where you see the power spread much better than the curve lines.
 
#5 ·
Andy-Go to bed :p...And he already claimed ownership of this thread. Whatever that meant. :confused:

One thing though. I am too lazy to do a search, but didn't the GSM CAI show to lose power on previous posts? Maybe Im gettin old. :confused:
 
#9 ·
This thread shows that both make power over the stock box with the stock filter.......I have never seen a thread were any CAI lost power except the DUB with the filter it came with......same results we saw last year with temperatures being the biggest factor.
 
#6 ·
Theirs has the same design as most in the market and is dimensionally the same as BWoody except it sets higher just above the frame instaed of below....... and in the direction of the factory grille opening.




 
#12 ·
I'm kinda stuck between well....you know. I know Steve, I know Scott, I have the Bwoody, etc. Steve has always been and currently is interested in presenting the community with the truth in his findings from various tests. He's one of the guys from the get go that I took to because of his posts and wealth of information. I know that I am not the only one. I've been to GSM 2 times now with the GC and Scott actually complimented the look of the BWoody, never did he try to sell me his CAI. Scott will give you honest information based on the results you are looking for. The man actually told me not to do a mod that I would have bought from him b/c the results wouldn't have been benefical for me. And when Steve first saw my truck with the BWoody and strutbar about a month back, he was nothing but complimentary as well on the product, powdercoating, etc. Now I don't live under a rock. I've read the ill will between him and a select few. The man decided to buy one after seeing mine and give it a run, so that's what he did! Plain and simple. When they did these tests, they made sure the IAT readings, ECT readings, etc. were well within range. If you think for a second that he or Scott fabricated, skewed, etc. any of this data, you are mistaken. Ohhh, and I look forward to meeting you Andy.:D
 
#15 ·
Andrew, then how about I fly you out to watch me conduct a 100% independant, factual, and truthful test? Sorry but the scenario presented by Steve, like so much of what he posts, makes no sense whatsoever. When conducting a parts test, you ship the parts to the vehicle(s), not vice versa. I know a little something about it since I've done dozens of them over the past ten years for publication.
The simple fact of the matter is (I really didn't want to have to go here, and as much as I don't want to believe it) I received information (phone call) last week from someone that was at the GSM/BWoody dyno session that the numbers were going to be manipulated and not to believe what was going to be posted. Now add to it the fact that Steve has a history, which he even admitted to me over the phone, of handing out skewed results. For instance when he tested the original Zoomers catback, he used baseline numbers off of a different Jeep (that made less power) then posted results from his truck (which was stronger) with the Zoomers cataback to pad the results. He was consequently called out on this online over on the LXForums, and swore he'd never do it again, however we all know the angst he harbors against BWoody. Finally factor in all the other dyno/track sessions from the over 400 or so satisfied BWoody customers and a clear pattern of mischevious behavior begins to emerge.
Sorry to say Andrew that the wool has been pulled over your eyes.
 
#13 ·
Now im not thread crapping here (just making an offer):

I have a GSM CAI you can test Andy, Marcus traded it in on a BWoody Cai, we gauranteed him if he didn't pick up at least a tenth in the 1/4 over the GSM we would refund him his money, he picked up .112 if i remember correctly, so he didn't ask for his money back, we tested the GSM intake against ours when we tested ours against the oem and we didn't come up with the same numbers, we never posted the results of the GSM and we're not going to it isn't fair to GSM a competitor dynoing their intake, Anyways the offer stands Andy if you want the GSM cai i will ship it to you for un-biased testing.


 
#18 · (Edited)
No one is going to come up with the exact comparison unless it's done at the same facility, altitude, temp, humidity etc. So I won't be surprised if you come up with something different one way or another. As far as the phone call Andy, that's about as good as being in court and telling the judge you have a witness that won't testify in front of the jury lol. There wasn't anyone else at GSM when these tests ocurred and do you really think that Scott or Steve would brag to anyone that they were going to skew information, if that indeed was their quest. And if I was a single guy without a wife and a 7 month old to give him a hard time about flying elsewhere for the "cars", I'd take a free ticket in a heartbeat to go hang out with you and do what we love the most.
 
#22 ·
No one is going to come up with the exact comparison unless it's done at the same facility, altitude, temp, humidity etc. So I won't be surprised if you come up with something different one way or another. As far as the phone call Andy, that's about as good as being in court and telling the judge you have a witness that won't testify in front of the jury lol. There wasn't anyone else at GSM when these tests ocurred and do you really think that Scott or Steve would brag to anyone that they were going to skew information, if that indeed was their quest. And if I was a single guy without a wife and a 7 month old to give him a hard time about flying elsewhere for the "cars", I'd take a free ticket in a heartbeat to go hang out with you and do what we love the most.
That's my point Andrew, my testing will be just that, same facility/dyno, technique, gear, correction factor, back to back (for the sake of changes in weather), etc. The only variable will be the two CAIs.
Unfortunately this isn't a court of law, it's the internet. I wish it were so there would be real life penalties for lying, however that's not the case. I will never reveal the name of the source this info came from but I also wasn't the only person they contacted. Like I said, I've known for sometime this was going to happen.
Nothing personal against you but if you really didn't have a dog in this fight, you wouldn't be posting in this thread.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Do you think GSM is confident enough in their product to let an objective third party perform the same test at an independant facility? I'll pay for dyno time if they send me a CAI (which I will return immediately after testing). If it really makes more power I'll even buy it. Just a thought, and a serious chance for them to net some credibility.
I would like to point out a couple of things.

GSM has a state of the art 4wd eddie current dyno ($100,000), and we have all the tools to data log every aspect of tuning for the Chrysler platform.

I see alot of dyno sheets that show no info but a hp/tq and air fuel, for testing purpose's there are several different tables that adjust timing and air fuel depending on temps (iat, ect, cats) this needs to be monitered for an accurate test.

That is why you see data that no one else shows like ... ect, iat, fuel trims, timing and so on, you need this information to tune correctly and for maximum power/torque.

Your welcome to use our shop if you want to do some testing, we are going to be at sema all week ... I will pm you my cell # if you want to set up another test with as many people that would care to watch.


Scott
GS Motorsports
562.777.1075
 
#20 ·
I would like to point out a couple of things.

GSM has a state of the art 4wd eddie current dyno ($100,000), and we have all the tools to data log every aspect of tuning for the Chrysler platform.

That is why you see data that no one else shows like ... ect, iat, fuel trims, timing and so on, you need this information to tune correctly and for maximum power/torque.

Your welcome to use our shop if you want to do some testing, we are going to be at sema all week ... I will pm you my cell # if you want to set up another test with as many people that would care to watch.


Scott
GS Motorsports
562.777.1075

Scott,
Thanks for the reply but I think you're missing the point. You make/sell one of the products being compared here, there is simply no way to have an independant/objective test done at your facility with your own product.
I have access to both 2w and AW dynojets and all the data logging equipment necessary as well. If you were truly confident you'd PM me for my address and overnight a CAI to me.
Thankfully BWoody is sending me one of your CAIs to back to back test on the same dyno I've logged all my runs on. We will follow exacting procedures as we always do in order to bring the most accurate information possible to light.
You can bank on what I find, because unlike others on this forum, I've never lied about test results.
 
#21 ·
Ok my take on this.....
The only way to really test different products is at the strip. Unfortunately, it takes a complete day to do ALL the back to back testing required to document results. When I rented Rockingham and make 100++ runs, every run was documented.
For example, on the Volant CAI with my brake scoop mod. the 1st 10 - 15 passes were just to get a baseline, which I did. Also I had Blackstallion running with his '06 stocker to make sure that we were not overly influenced by any weather related changes during the day. Anyway, when I deleted the brake scoop mod I lost exactly 1 tenth and exactly 1 mph. After 10 passes without the brake ram air, I hooked it back up and gained back exactly 1 tenth and 1 mph. That was the way to test.

What I propose, is in the spring time to rent a track for a day...I would like to see it within about a 6-8 hour drive from me. This way we could get about 6 of us and decide before hand who is testing what components.

If you read what our respected SRT engineers say about the dyno....it can certainly vary +/- 5 hp within the same conditions. Mine sure did on the AWD dyno.
I won't even get into dyno manipulating, which can be achieved VERY easily.

In summary, I sure would NOT change my CAI because of a dyno test. A verified back to back run at the track, hell YES.
Bill
 
#23 ·
We need an East vs. West showdown. The BWoody crew drives out from the East Coast, the GSM crew from the west. We meet in the midwest and have a track showdown. Run what you brung! Finally we will crown a winner and we can all move on with our lives and forget this interweb drama.

Oh and there will be cake.

:D
 
#37 ·
:eek:

Hope this all works out for the sake of the information that will be provided.

Stop bickering- this is looking like a Mustang board. You are both smarter and have more class than this.

My .02 so please do not bash me.
 
#44 ·
What does how much money Steve makes a year have to do with anything here?

<_<

>_>

Oh and I was a sworn Police Officer too! I can tell you though, my coworkers were some of the most hypocritical people I've ever met. Many of them were quite dishonest and bullheaded...they were NEVER wrong! Ever! hmm....


*Now where'd my cake go?
 
#48 ·
not saying anyone has a hidden agenda here, but if someone is BS'ing us in to believing something that isn't real, that's just fukked up, man.
 
#50 ·
fitty bux strokes woody rolls more over the curve hp than the bg unit. And someones elses tests get refuted. And we are left with more info on cai than i thought humanly possible...
 
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