Has anyone here heard of these guys?

E55 guys are saying good things about them.

http://www.levelten.com/

http://www.svtlightnings.com/svt/how-to/level10/level10.htm

had their stuff in my 408 stroker, was bulletproof. Expensive, but worth it. The best part was that my brother challenged AAMCO corporate for doing bad work and they ended up buying it for us.:)

highly respected in the 5.9 community

Steve, PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM LEVEL 10. My wife and I have a 98 5.9 GC. In March of 2005 the 5.9 developed a SLIGHT skip going around 60-65 mph on the highway. It didn't seem serious to me so I kept driving it for a while the way it was. In May of 2005 my wife and I went to Bowling Green,Ky. for the Buick Nationals. We took the 5.9. Drove all the way down and back with the same problem. Didn't get any better or worse. We put I would say about 7,000 miles on the 5.9 and the condition didn't get any better or worse. After we came back from BG,Ky I decided to see Pat Barrett the owner of Level 10 trans in Hamburg,NJ. because Pat and I USED to be very good friends. I used to help him out for free at various car shows in the NJ area such as Englishtown, Piscataway etc. Dropped the car off with this SAMMY who is the service manager at Level 10. I get a call later that day from this Sammy saying the trans was toast. Everything needed replacing, converter, WIRING HARNESS (?) etc.I knew it had a very SLIGHT drip from the transfer case so I figured if the trans had to be removed might as well put new silicone seal between the transfer case halfs which is where the slight drip was comming from. I asked this Sammy how much would it cost to fix? He quoted me a price of $4300 and change. I figured, oh well the 5.9 runs perfect otherwise and I don't really have any intentions of buying another vehicle especially with the roads in Pa in the winter time. Picked up the 5.9 the next day, the same problem existed plus now it had too much line pressure. It wouldn't shift from 1st to 2nd under WOT. I had to make 5 or 6 trips from Pa to NJ. What was the problem you might ask? A TPS switch which cost about $45 or $50 that goes onto the throttle body. IT WASN'T THE TRANS AT ALL. Naturally they never sent me a bill for what they said cost $60. Sammy said"just take it and see how it runs with the TPS switch". I did talk to Pat when we picked up the 5.9 after the trans rebuilt. Naturally he was going to stick up for his Sammy. He said"Richy that trans needed everything". I thought how the hell could that need everything when I just put on at least 7,000 miles and all it had was a slight skip which would happen very infrequently and besides my wife and I went to BG that way because I knew that we would not break down. Believe me, if I did not have some personal problems such as dealing with my wifes hip replacement and then open heart surgery and a mother who is 94 and in a nursing home Pat and I would have seen each other in court. Steve, Buddy please stay away from Level 10. You or anyone else can PM me and I will furnish my phone # to discuss this on the phone or thru a PM. Steve, you and I seem to be alike because neither you or I don't BS anyone. We tell it like it is. Good or bad. Take care, Rich

Steve, by the way,excellent job on the Kooks vs Sw header comparison. You are a gluten for punishment. Let me know of the status of the CF CAI when you progress with it. It looks good. Rich

I may have seen close to 100 people talk about experiences with level 10 over the years. Not once until this thread do I recall a negative comment.

I'm not sure what to think about SILVER GC SRT8's experience, except that I would suspect it has to do more with individuals than the entire operation. Also not sure why he would talk about suing "Pat" when "Sammy" seems to have been the one who screwed him. Actually, I wasn't even clear if sammy screwed him by convincing him to go through with paying for the new trans or not due to the way it was written.

Take this for what it's worth. Be vigilant and cautious.

What are you considering level 10 for anyways? You might rather swap a W5A1000 for what seems to be 3800-6100$. Best.

Has anyone here heard of these guys?

E55 guys are saying good things about them.

http://www.levelten.com/

http://www.svtlightnings.com/svt/how-to/level10/level10.htm

Level 10 is the GSM of transmissions (IMO). Some people love them others hate them.

Go ask the Supra world what they think of Level 10. You'll probably be banned from the forum before you get a chance to reply to the 10,000 hate posts.
but....
Ford guys love Level 10. *shrug*

I looked into them for a tranny on my S4 a long time back. There was a lot of smoke and mirrors when I asked them what they were doing to make it so "bullet proof". I don't trust a vendor if they can't tell me what they're doing. This isn't rocket science, it's automotive science. ;)

Anyways, I'd say skip L10 and look to doing the W5A1000 instead. Proven hardware and spare parts. You won't be reinventing the wheel. (pioneering is painful).

Just MO.


***edit
Out of curiosity? Why are you considering upgrading the tranny? I've not heard of a single failure yet.

Level10 is what the Volvo guys use for upgrades. :shrug:

Anyways, I'd say skip L10 and look to doing the W5A1000 instead. Proven hardware and spare parts. You won't be reinventing the wheel. (pioneering is painful). ^^^this is the direction I will be heading^^^



Out of curiosity? Why are you considering upgrading the tranny? I've not heard of a single failure yet. Good question, with the extreme power (600-700+ crank hp) and Drag Radials that some are adding, I DO sincerely believe that our driveline was NOT over designed for this amount of additional torque and power.
Case in point is when Ira (JGC with supercharger and drag radials) made his second pass down the track the ring and pinion let loose at the starting line. Oh, and we can not forget our favorite vendor Hennessey, blowing his converter. Next, IMO is the transfer case and then the transmission.
Not one who likes to be stranded, looks like the only thing I am not changing will be the body.:eek::eek:
Bill

I had a level 10 in my 2001 Lightning. I had nothing but bad luck with it, had to be torn down and rebuilt 3 times in 10k miles. I have friends that will swear by level 10. So I don't know.

^^^this is the direction I will be heading^^^


Good question, with the extreme power (600-700+ crank hp) and Drag Radials that some are adding, I DO sincerely believe that our driveline was NOT over designed for this amount of additional torque and power.
Case in point is when Ira (JGC with supercharger and drag radials) made his second pass down the track the ring and pinion let loose at the starting line. Oh, and we can not forget our favorite vendor Hennessey, blowing his converter. Next, IMO is the transfer case and then the transmission.
Not one who likes to be stranded, looks like the only thing I am not changing will be the body.:eek::eek:
Bill


Hey Bill,

You're probably the only guy (or one of few) that will be testing the limits of the whole powertrain. And for that I thank you! ;)

I've been following your rear axle thread closely cause I think that'll be your biggest hurdle in keeping parts together (aka making good clean/fast runs). It's also the weakest link for us weekend warriors (aka guys only making 400 to the wheels.) ;)

Vegas should be taking odds, but as long as we're playing; I think the stock Torque Converter is the next weak link after the rear. Then I'd say Transfer Case (just guessing here), and then tranny. Most guys won't begin to test any of these parts here, but then again most guys aren't making 500+ to the wheels.

Anyways, thanks again for doing all the work, and reporting your findings back to the internet. Good luck with the W5A1000! And let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

You're probably the only guy (or one of few) that will be testing the limits of the whole powertrain. And for that I thank you! ;) It is actually very surprising how many guys are out there doing the massive power thing. There is even a duplicate of my low compression 426 supercharged setup (minus user programmable electronics) running from ASM. I communicate almost daily with him. In fact, we are going along dual paths on the drive line issue. He realizes that with Drag Radials he will leave parts all over the track!



I've been following your rear axle thread closely cause I think that'll be your biggest hurdle in keeping parts together (aka making good clean/fast runs). It's also the weakest link for us weekend warriors (aka guys only making 400 to the wheels.) ;) The 1st 9" Ford JGC SRT8 rear diff assy shipped out yesterday. Can't wait to see how it bolts up. Western Diff is also working on a less costly version that would use a 9" Ford housing and the original factory 3" tubes with good axles. This would save them from cutting off the original brackets and re-welding them on to new tubes. So far they have been GREAT to deal with. Currie and others said I was nuts!!!:D


Vegas should be taking odds, but as long as we're playing; I think the stock Torque Converter is the next weak link after the rear. Then I'd say Transfer Case (just guessing here), and then tranny. Most guys won't begin to test any of these parts here, but then again most guys aren't making 500+ to the wheels.
I agree with your order, although the torque converter may let loose 1st.
Fun times!!
Bill

Can't we just swap in W5A1000 internals into our existing cases?

Can't we just swap in W5A1000 internals into our existing cases?
Currently looking into rebuilding one of ours with the heavy duty internals of the W5A1000.
Great minds think alike??????????? :confused:
Bill

Currently looking into rebuilding one of ours with the heavy duty internals of the W5A1000.
Great minds think alike??????????? :confused:
Bill

I'm thinking it would probably be the most cost effective route. Please let us know what you find!

Thanks

I'm thinking it would probably be the most cost effective route. Please let us know what you find!

Thanks
Potential breakthrough......found a Mercedes Transmission Co. that is beginning the research for us. We were talking high torque NAGS.
Damn, pioneer again!
Should know something in the next few days!
Bill

Potential breakthrough......found a Mercedes Transmission Co. that is beginning the research for us. We were talking high torque NAGS.
Damn, pioneer again!
Should know something in the next few days!
Bill


That's great Bill, keep on blazing that trail!

In the process of upgrading the trans, do you think it would be plausible to put a 7-speed in their while you're at it?? I am not at all familiar with Mercedes transmission internals and part #'s, so it would be great if someone could either explain if it can done or throw down a link to some good info.

In the process of upgrading the trans, do you think it would be plausible to put a 7-speed in their while you're at it?? I am not at all familiar with Mercedes transmission internals and part #'s, so it would be great if someone could either explain if it can done or throw down a link to some good info. Electronics would be an issue unfortunately.
Tough enough to get the 5 speed AMG Mercedes Transmission talking intelligently to the Hemi!
Bill

Currie and others said I was nuts!!!:D
Bill

Bill, your not nuts, just a midlife crisis--but a super good guy. That's what I'm tellin folks and I'm sticking to it--Doesn't matter if it's true or not!!!! HaHaHaHa Good work!! GC

In the process of upgrading the trans, do you think it would be plausible to put a 7-speed in their while you're at it?? I am not at all familiar with Mercedes transmission internals and part #'s, so it would be great if someone could either explain if it can done or throw down a link to some good info.

The Benz 7A has a lower TQ capacity than the W5A1000 and it's top gear really isn't that much taller.

Bill, your not nuts, just a midlife crisis--but a super good guy. That's what I'm tellin folks and I'm sticking to it--Doesn't matter if it's true or not!!!! HaHaHaHa Good work!! GC Back to ya bud!!:)
As a friend once said, how many damn second childhoods are you going to have????:rolleyes:
Bill

The Benz 7A has a lower TQ capacity than the W5A1000 and it's top gear really isn't that much taller. BTW it seems the W5A900 is readily available, component wise. Oh, and 900 series starts getting into the really different internal components. What vehicle does the W5A1000 come in....no guessing either. If I we are going this far might as well have the W5A1000 vs. the W5A900. I thought the AMG **6* series...lets narrow it down please.
Bigger IS better in torque ratings!

Oh, and also working with them on our Siemans manufactured TCM...Mercedes is Siemans (sp) also. We obviously need the line pressure that they have that gives us a 35% QUICKER shift. Oh yeah. while they are at it, how about raising the shift point to about 6,500 rpm or so!!!:D

The plan may be coming together.
Bill

BTW it seems the W5A900 is readily available, component wise. Oh, and 900 series starts getting into the really different internal components. What vehicle does the W5A1000 come in....no guessing either. If I we are going this far might as well have the W5A1000 vs. the W5A900. I thought the AMG **6* series...lets narrow it down please.
Bigger IS better in torque ratings!

Oh, and also working with them on our Siemans manufactured TCM...Mercedes is Siemans (sp) also. We obviously need the line pressure that they have that gives us a 35% QUICKER shift. Oh yeah. while they are at it, how about raising the shift point to about 6,500 rpm or so!!!:D

The plan may be coming together.
Bill


The ability to shift higher would be priceless at this point. I can't say for sure if the W5A1000 comes in all the TT V12 vehicles, or just the AMG versions with 738lb/ft.

What vehicle does the W5A1000 come in....no guessing either.


s65 & cl65

s65 & cl65

I'm thinking the McLaren probably also used it, despite having the blown V8.

s65 & cl65
Dave,
Thanks, I will run with that info today!
I believe the vendor was looking up an SL65 (per my guess).
Bill

s65 & cl65I'm thinking the McLaren probably also used it, despite having the blown V8.

This is all likely correct, and the only one I really question is the SLR McLaren, since it does put out "only" 575 ftlbs so it may have retained a W5A580 .

Previously I stated all "65AMG" cars. This includes the SL65 in addition to what you two mentioned. It appears the S600, CL600, SL600... also possessing the V12 BiTurbo with 612ftlbs and a 5 speed ....likely have it as well. That's pretty much the formula - high torque, likely at or over 580 ftlbs plus a 5 speed transmission, in the MB lineup, is likely to use the W5A1000.

Thus, it appears Maybach also uses the W5A1000, however I heard they have some tricky controls with the Maybach setup. I know a few people with a Maybach, but they wouldn't know anything about the trans. Same engine in same tune as the MBs though. Could email Maybach or MB if you care that much.

Like I mentioned before, companies like Kleeman, Brabus, RENNTech, Carlsson etc - MANY more by now - also have experience in working with these transmissions with excess of 800ftlbs.

In my experience many transmissions exceed their manufacturer's rated figures - sometimes by huge amounts. However, the aforementioned companies should also have some experience in manipulating themboth electronically and mechanically for more efficient and more powerful performance.

Lastly, if people really want to use this truck to race and do not really care about having the best possible road cruising mixed in with a top of the line automatic (like a W5A1000, unlike TH400s and the like) .... then they should seriously consider a T56 swap.

www.sixspeedsinc.com aka T56Rebuilds.com have built up a good reputation for providing 6 speed manual T56 transmissions good for 1500-1700hp/tq to my knowledge. I've spoken with them before and they are an enthusiastic and knowledgeable bunch, though they are still a young company. They do rely on their own stuff for their racing as well, so that helps. If I recall correctly, I think they even have some packages that maintain warranty up to around 1200 hp/tq.

Keisler Engineering has recent magazine coverage for a T56 swap into a Charger SRT8, which they are providing a kit for. Since it is nearly the same as the Magnum and 300c, they offer those kits as well (if they are really any different). The Cherokee SRT8 shouldn't be any problem even if it is any different in a transmission swap regard - as long as there is interest.

http://www.keislerauto.com/mopar/transmissions/6-speed.html

Previously I stated all "65AMG" cars. This includes the SL65 in addition to what you two mentioned. It appears the S600, CL600, SL600... also possessing the V12 BiTurbo with 612ftlbs and a 5 speed ....likely have it as well. That's pretty much the formula - high torque, likely at or over 580 ftlbs plus a 5 speed transmission, in the MB lineup, is likely to use the W5A1000. SC,
The Mercedes parts books so far shows the W5A900 being used for vehicles like the SL600 etc. The transmission vendor is checking out the new info on the CL65.
BTW....it appears that the W5A900 uses a much different gear set than the lower torque versions. I hope the gears are similar ratio or we may throw some code.
I'll be surprised if the cost of the NEWNAG1 built with our case and new 900 or 1000 innards will be less than $5,000.
It appears our TCM pushes higher line pressure than the typical Mercedes transmissions, until you get to the AMG etc.
I reiterated it would be of paramount importance to us for the shift rev. point be raised to our specs.....say 6,500 rpm for example. Sure would NOT do that on a stocker though.
Bill

NO Offense, I am reading this correctly you wanna put the tranmission of a $185,000 almost Supercar on a Jeep SRT8. I am a Benz guy threw and threw. Dont kid yourself the Transmissions used in 65 AMGS will be well over $15,000. Furthermore, I like the SRT, but it is no BENZ and it is DEFINETLY NOT AN AMG, only 50 people in the world are authroized to handbuild a AMG motor. I am aware we are talking about Transmission. I am just saying though. Maybe the ML63 would be close, but thats it. You already have 4 gears and an Overdrive. More than a TBSS owner can say which is 3 gears and a overdrive(1960s style). Jeep has always had good automatic transmissions, look at the track record of the Cherokee, I6 automatic. Its tougher than nails. The transfer case is what you need to worry about more than the transmission. In my opinion

The transfer case is what you need to worry about more than the transmission. In my opinion

+1

Transfer case will go first, usually. I would do torque converter and transfer case first, then look into the tranny. I'm personally going with Level 10 for my Ford 5r55w tranny. A few out there now on Mustangs making good power with great results so far. They are really the only company doing anything serious for this 5 speed.

But you might not want to do your tranny with them... but maybe you can consider them beefing up the transfer case.

NO Offense, I am reading this correctly you wanna put the tranmission of a $185,000 almost Supercar on a Jeep SRT8. I am a Benz guy threw and threw. Dont kid yourself the Transmissions used in 65 AMGS will be well over $15,000. Furthermore, I like the SRT, but it is no BENZ and it is DEFINETLY NOT AN AMG, only 50 people in the world are authroized to handbuild a AMG motor. I am aware we are talking about Transmission. I am just saying though. Maybe the ML63 would be close, but thats it. You already have 4 gears and an Overdrive. More than a TBSS owner can say which is 3 gears and a overdrive(1960s style). Jeep has always had good automatic transmissions, look at the track record of the Cherokee, I6 automatic. Its tougher than nails. The transfer case is what you need to worry about more than the transmission. In my opinion No offense taken.
Actually looking at putting the transmission of a $ X00,000 vehicle into our $ 45,000 Jeeps.:eek:
Yes, the McLaren, Big 600's and 65's all use the W5A900 transmission. I have researched the heck out of this and there is no parts books that even lists the W5A1000. It may be a prototype or a dream. The cross references ALL show the W5A900 for the states. Maybe something weird, like the exports have the W5A1000. A McLaren VIN was punched in the computer for a Mercedes factory rebuilt transmission and once again the part number coincided with the W5A900. I just ordered a $ 700 output shaft for this (fortunately returnable) to make sure that the gear ratio and output shaft are compatible with our vehicles.
Here is the latest:
Our NAG1 transmission for a core. The parts used will be the bell housing and valve body.
A Mercedes factory rebuilt complete W5A900 transmission will be used for all heavy duty internals except valve body.
The heavy duty Mercedes components (they use new parts internally) will be stuffed into our case, except for the valve body
$ 5,495 plus shipping.If I can find a core I will pull the trigger and see how it works!
Crazy Bill

Oh...BTW,
I can Google and certainly find the W5A1000.
Just can not find it listed per actual VIN (SL, S, Cl any combination) to Mercedes transmission codes other than the W5A900. I have 2 companies that only do Mercedes transmissions working on this. Very confusing, wonder if it is a deal like we can't order export interiors or any other export parts????
Bill

Here is the latest:
Our NAG1 transmission for a core. The parts used will be the bell housing and valve body.
A Mercedes factory rebuilt complete W5A900 transmission will be used for all heavy duty internals except valve body.
The heavy duty Mercedes components (they use new parts internally) will be stuffed into our case, except for the valve body
$ 5,495 plus shipping.If I can find a core I will pull the trigger and see how it works!
Crazy Bill

Bill leading the way again! *thumbs up* Thanks for the info.

Is it too soon to ask for who is doing this for you Bill? How about electronics? Is that an issue?

***edit***
For what it's worth I think the 3.5 V6 LX platform use the same W5A580 transmission, but don't know if the internals are the same. At least that's what google and lxforums.com lead me to believe. Might be cheaper to find a junker and buy that tranny for a core Bill... *shrug*

Is it too soon to ask for who is doing this for you Bill? How about electronics?
James at Silver Star Transmission. http://www.silverstartransmission.com/

He is working on the electronics with a company that rebuilds the Siemens electronics for Mercedes. Thats when I brought up that our TCM is a Siemens.



For what it's worth I think the 3.5 V6 LX platform use the same W5A580 transmission, but don't know if the internals are the same. At least that's what google and lxforums.com lead me to believe. Might be cheaper to find a junker and buy that tranny for a core Bill... *shrug* Unfortunately, it appears our valve body is calibrated to our Jeeps as may be the housing. Therefore, thanks, but it appears we need a core from a jeep.
Bill

James at Silver Star Transmission. http://www.silverstartransmission.com/

He is working on the electronics with a company that rebuilds the Siemens electronics for Mercedes. Thats when I brought up that our TCM is a Siemens.


Unfortunately, it appears our valve body is calibrated to our Jeeps as may be the housing. Therefore, thanks, but it appears we need a core from a jeep.
Bill


Thanks Bill,

Wondering if you can buy the valve body from DC direct? Just trying to save you some $$$. ;)

Either way thanks again for the info and good luck!

No offense taken.
Actually looking at putting the transmission of a $ X00,000 vehicle into our $ 45,000 Jeeps.:eek:
Yes, the McLaren, Big 600's and 65's all use the W5A900 transmission. I have researched the heck out of this and there is no parts books that even lists the W5A1000. It may be a prototype or a dream. The cross references ALL show the W5A900 for the states. Maybe something weird, like the exports have the W5A1000. A McLaren VIN was punched in the computer for a Mercedes factory rebuilt transmission and once again the part number coincided with the W5A900. I just ordered a $ 700 output shaft for this (fortunately returnable) to make sure that the gear ratio and output shaft are compatible with our vehicles.
Here is the latest:
Our NAG1 transmission for a core. The parts used will be the bell housing and valve body.
A Mercedes factory rebuilt complete W5A900 transmission will be used for all heavy duty internals except valve body.
The heavy duty Mercedes components (they use new parts internally) will be stuffed into our case, except for the valve body
$ 5,495 plus shipping.If I can find a core I will pull the trigger and see how it works!
Crazy Bill

No offense taken either. I think it is ridiculous for people to be flustered about this in any way. They are just tranmissions and automobiles. The price and status are irrelevant to me - it's all about performance and whatever way you want to get your desired performance that works best for you should be fine for everyone.

Furthermore, I think everyone agreed that the transfer case would go before the trans, but we had already talked about those upgrades and threw some links around, along with diffs as well ... and we may again ... so it's not like anybody is really missing anything yet. (To those who may have missed it, recently alot of that talk occured in, but has not been limited to, the following thread: http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4954 ) .

Let's also remember that for about 10 years Chrysler and Benz have been subsidiaries of the same company - DCX aka Daimler Chrysler. Only since May 14th 2007 did Chrysler get sold off to Cerberus. So, even if somebody wanted to get all pissy about brand matching, the factories install some of the same parts from Benz into Jeeps or vice versa .... so Benz parts are technically right at home in Jeeps.

Back to the W5A900 and W5A1000 discussion....
So maybe I should have been content with my "65 AMG" theory. In the current lineup, this would only be the SL65 AMG and S65 AMG. Maybe the current lineup or a lineup before them/for some specific time period had W5A900 or vice versa the W5A1000, or maybe only the non-AMG 6 series have the W5A900 or maybe they only had it for a time period or vice verse the W5A1000 .... or maybe like Bill said there is a difference in market location .... I don't claim to know for sure. But, there is definitely a lot of uncertainty so far so I would have a tough time being 100% confident in anyone's assertion until they told me that they identified part numbers on a vehicle - and even then I would wonder for what period of time that part number was installed on the vehicle from the factory.

The best thing to do in this case, if one cares, is to talk to everyone possible. I would start with Kleeman if you haven't already, since as I have said before they have experience in extensively modifying Benz cars ... and they list the W5A1000 and W5A900 on their website:

http://www.kleemann.dk/site/Main/faq
Engine Gearbox Constant load

All 7-Speed W7A700 700 Nm

M113 - V8 OE Kompressor 5-Speed W5A900 900 Nm

M275 - V12 N/A 5-Speed W5A1000 1000 Nm

M275 - V12 Bi Turbo 5-Speed W5A1000 1000 Nm

M113 - V8 N/A 5-Speed W5A580 580 Nm

M112 - All 5-Speed W5A330 330 Nm

Plus, these are the same people the Charger guy I previously linked to was talking to about getting a W5A1000 for 3800-6100 USD.

You can also call http://www.renntechmercedes.com/ , http://www.brabus.com/ and http://www.carlsson.de/ to talk with some of the other MB aftermarket leaders. These companies definitely have experience with MB transmission electronics and may also/likely also have experience with the mechanical internals.

You could of course try to get an expert breakdown from MB and MB-AMG themselves - http://www.mbusa.com/contact-us.do , http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes-amg.do .

NO Offense, I am reading this correctly you wanna put the tranmission of a $185,000 almost Supercar on a Jeep SRT8. I am a Benz guy threw and threw. Dont kid yourself the Transmissions used in 65 AMGS will be well over $15,000. Furthermore, I like the SRT, but it is no BENZ and it is DEFINETLY NOT AN AMG, only 50 people in the world are authroized to handbuild a AMG motor. I am aware we are talking about Transmission. I am just saying though. Maybe the ML63 would be close, but thats it. You already have 4 gears and an Overdrive. More than a TBSS owner can say which is 3 gears and a overdrive(1960s style). Jeep has always had good automatic transmissions, look at the track record of the Cherokee, I6 automatic. Its tougher than nails. The transfer case is what you need to worry about more than the transmission. In my opinion

LOL. Do they click their ruby red heels together three times before building one?
Sorry to burst your bubble but the blown/turbo 3 valve AMG motors are nothing special, at all. They are simply small bore OHC engines that can't make enough power N/A, hence the forced induction. Just because Mercedes sees fit to only let 50 workers put them together has no significance whatsoever.

Honestly, once we get the internals/parts situation worked out, anyone capable of rebuilding a trans can handle the rest.

SC,
The Mercedes parts books so far shows the W5A900 being used for vehicles like the SL600 etc. The transmission vendor is checking out the new info on the CL65.
BTW....it appears that the W5A900 uses a much different gear set than the lower torque versions. I hope the gears are similar ratio or we may throw some code.
I'll be surprised if the cost of the NEWNAG1 built with our case and new 900 or 1000 innards will be less than $5,000.
It appears our TCM pushes higher line pressure than the typical Mercedes transmissions, until you get to the AMG etc.
I reiterated it would be of paramount importance to us for the shift rev. point be raised to our specs.....say 6,500 rpm for example. Sure would NOT do that on a stocker though.
Bill


Bill do you know the W5A900 gear ratios?

Bill do you know the W5A900 gear ratios?
Per the AMG from the above link (thanks!) the specs for a CL65AMG w/ W5A900:
1 = 3.59
2 = 2.19
3 = 1.41
4 = 1.00
5 = 0.83

EXACTLY the same as ours if your check the specs.
The plan is coming together.

Now, about that transfer case.
Bill

LOL. Do they click their ruby red heels together three times before building one?
Sorry to burst your bubble but the blown/turbo 3 valve AMG motors are nothing special, at all. They are simply small bore OHC engines that can't make enough power N/A, hence the forced induction. Just because Mercedes sees fit to only let 50 workers put them together has no significance whatsoever.

LOL. Yes sir, and you drive a lazy pushrod V8. That doesnt truely have hemishperical heads. ;)

here we go again with the whole non-hemishperical heads. how much can u really beat a dead horse....

here we go again with the whole non-hemishperical heads. how much can u really beat a dead horse....

Sorry Frank you are right, it just that I love me a Mercedes, and throwing down against AMG, is just not necessary.

As per the Level 10 quality...as said before, they are not what they used to be. I posted this on ****** as well. I was always reccomended level 10 my a local shop and when I decided to build my Silverado SS I was going to use them for a stronger tranny and the same shop that reccomended them to me has since warned me to steer clear. The quality and service isn't what it used to be, and reading across different forums that seems to be the case. The only down side is that theyare currently the only ones that have any parts out for the trannies...

LOL. Yes sir, and you drive a lazy pushrod V8. That doesnt truely have hemishperical heads. ;)

I would never deny that. The 6.1 Hemi is merely another domestic moderate displacement pushrod V8, and you are correct, the nomenclature is false. However, that doesn't mean that we don't have Mercedes trannys:p

ps--I wasn't knocking the AMGs, they are nice vehicles, but facts are facts.

Per the AMG from the above link (thanks!) the specs for a CL65AMG w/ W5A900:
1 = 3.59
2 = 2.19
3 = 1.41
4 = 1.00
5 = 0.83

EXACTLY the same as ours if your check the specs.
The plan is coming together.

Now, about that transfer case.
Bill

No prob. I forgot that the CL65 was in the CURRENT lineup, btw.

But, if you REALLY want to be particular .... as it can be important on occasion ...

1) The CL65 and the S65 specs are SLIGHTLY off by only EDIT: *not decimal points (tired), but +/- a tenth/hundreth or a few tenths/hundreths*, while the specs on the SL65 are identical to those you quoted and those quoted at http://wkjeeps.com/wk_transm.htm . Such slight changes are a bit perplexing.

2) I'm still not sure on the discrepancy between the W5A900 and W5A1000 other than obviously they are supposed to have a tq rating difference of 100nm. With all the confusion to date as to which cars these versions go in, I don't have enough info to be sure.

Seems like you're content with the W5A900 idea, but you may want to call Kleeman and ask them about the differences and allocations of the transmissions. Furthermore, I'm not sure you'd want to spend "$ 5,495 plus shipping" with a rebuild job on a W5A580 when it seems like you'd have to go through the hassle of sourcing one, shipping it to them, waiting for work, having it shipped to you .... when the other guy was saying that Kleeman helped him figure a way to just get the W5A1000 shipped to him for 3800-6100$. May be worth the time and hassle savings on that end to think a bit and make a call to Kleeman or something to consider all your options. But, either way it should work out fine :cool: .... as long as you don't get even more power hungry to the point where this trans is obsolete ;) .

P.S. - Noting the identical/almost identical ratios from the W5A580 to what you are currently comfortable with calling the W5A900 on the current AMG lineup, and the fact the differences between the trans seems to simply be internal materials and techniques for strength rather than any other configuration change in the case/housing or design of the internals .... I would imagine the same would be true for the difference between a W5A900 and W5A1000. But, with such a small rating difference, I wonder why they would bother with two different rated transmissions so close to the same performance. Makes me wonder if they are both the identical transmission but MB/AMG/DCX etc have been playing semantics with the part numbers or officially changed the part number because they decided it wasn't accurate to rate it at 1000nm or something to that effect. There's another theory to the answer of the confusion.

p.p.s. - some may argue this got off topic, but I don't really think so since I think we got here by suggesting alternatives to level 10 if anybody is uncomfortable with level 10 or any transmission shop solutions. Plus, I already said all I could say on level 10.

But, if you REALLY want to be particular .... as it can be important on occasion ...

1) The CL65 and the S65 specs are SLIGHTLY off by only decimal points, while the specs on the SL65 are identical to those you quoted and those quoted at http://wkjeeps.com/wk_transm.htm .

Actually, I had a side by side chart ready to post and thought what the heck....this will tend to confuse more people with SOME of the Mercedes specs taken to the 3rd place and the Jeep specs (and some Mercedes) rounded off to the 2nd place. Sounds like it still confused. The point I was making was that it DOES APPEAR that the ratios are fortunately the same.



2) I'm still not sure on the discrepancy between the W5A900 and W5A1000 other than obviously they are supposed to have a tq rating difference of 100nm. With all the confusion to date as to which cars these versions go in, I don't have enough info to be sure.
I am with you on the confusion!:confused:



Seems like you're content with the W5A900 idea, but you may want to call Kleeman and ask them about the differences and allocations of the transmissions. Furthermore, I'm not sure you'd want to spend "$ 5,495 plus shipping" with a rebuild job on a W5A580 when it seems like you'd have to go through the hassle of sourcing one, shipping it to them, waiting for work, having it shipped to you .... when the other guy was saying that Kleeman helped him figure a way to just get the W5A1000 shipped to him for 3800-6100$. May be worth the time and hassle savings on that end to think a bit and make a call to Kleeman or something to consider all your options. But, either way it should work out fine :cool: .... as long as you don't get even more power hungry to the point where this trans is obsolete ;) .


I believe that the other guy has NOT received & installed a W5A1000!!! Our vehicles (per my source listed previously) have a different bell housing and valve body that the Mercedes transmissions.
Some of the guys can assemble this stuff on paper all day long. They need to try to purchase and install some of the components that they so persistently drone on about.
Oh yeah, just get a VIN from eBay for a CL65 and go to the Mercedes dealer and get a W5A1000 and bolt it in. I sure wished it worked that way, I would purchase a new one for $ 6,100 and have it installed tomorrow. Saved me a ton of searches and phone calls.

I will check Kleeman though before I make a drastic move.

BTW....any Jeep transmission cores out there???
Bill

Ok, being a pioneer, you are going to take a few arrows and it looks like I just got hit!

NEW PLAN, Spoke with:
Bob Brady
Retail Sales, Renntech Mercedes
561.845.7888
BobB@renntechmercedes.com

He seemed very familiar with our Jeep SRT8 transmission.
Bob's thought was you going to do what????:eek::eek::eek:
His suggestion was for me to send him a Jeep core and let him replace the known weaker components with high performance parts.
One week turnaround $ 2,500.
Told him I was looking at approximately 740 hp at the crank (dreaming a bit) and he said so? The modified transmission should hold up to that. I may sneak a TCM to him to see if there is anything that could be done by him on that.


Now, about that transmission core....a little help please, you guys found the front and rear diffs out there for me.

:o Embarrassed, but honest Bill

Ok, being a pioneer, you are going to take a few arrows and it looks like I just got hit!

NEW PLAN, Spoke with:
Bob Brady
Retail Sales, Renntech Mercedes
561.845.7888
BobB@renntechmercedes.com

He seemed very familiar with our Jeep SRT8 transmission.
Bob's thought was you going to do what????:eek::eek::eek:
His suggestion was for me to send him a Jeep core and let him replace the known weaker components with high performance parts.
One week turnaround $ 2,500.
Told him I was looking at approximately 740 hp at the crank (dreaming a bit) and he said so? The modified transmission should hold up to that. I may sneak a TCM to him to see if there is anything that could be done by him on that.


Now, about that transmission core....a little help please, you guys found the front and rear diffs out there for me.

:o Embarrassed, but honest Bill

Woot. $2500 is low enough for us DIY'ers to consider. Nice job Bill. I'm sure someone can help you find a core. There has to be a junkyard GC-SRT8 somewhere in the states....

When you get more info can you start another thread? I keep forgetting to check this one cause it's called "Level 10 Transmisssions".

Ask Renntech about the Converter and Transfer case as well Bill, cause you know those are next to go. ;)

Thanks again!!!

Ok, being a pioneer, you are going to take a few arrows and it looks like I just got hit!

NEW PLAN, Spoke with:
Bob Brady
Retail Sales, Renntech Mercedes
561.845.7888
BobB@renntechmercedes.com

He seemed very familiar with our Jeep SRT8 transmission.
Bob's thought was you going to do what????:eek::eek::eek:
His suggestion was for me to send him a Jeep core and let him replace the known weaker components with high performance parts.
One week turnaround $ 2,500.
Told him I was looking at approximately 740 hp at the crank (dreaming a bit) and he said so? The modified transmission should hold up to that. I may sneak a TCM to him to see if there is anything that could be done by him on that.


Now, about that transmission core....a little help please, you guys found the front and rear diffs out there for me.

:o Embarrassed, but honest Bill

Bill
Anymore on the tranny pioneering?

Bill
Anymore on the tranny pioneering? General,
My spare (thanks to the members here) should arrive at Renntech in the am. It will take about one week (and $ 2,500) to teardown and rebuild with heavy duty components. I would love to have my "weak" components back for us to be able to buy the HD parts from Renntech and have your local shop do the rebuild. Not sure that is going to happen. I have already scheduled the transmission swap to be done at the dealer in about 2 weeks. I want to be sure it works properly before the new engine is installed. Hoping to have a TCM reprogrammed also. That may be an uphill battle though.

Not sure about the other company that is looking into replacing ALL internals and gears etc. with W5A900 parts. The only thing slowing me down is the $ 5,500 and core.

The spare transfer case arrived today. Sent it to a place in AZ that may be able to strengthen it.

The rear diff should be at Ira's tomorrow. Hopefully the 3" steel driveshaft also. I am a little nervous about the driveshaft not having a huge balancer on it. I believe the engineers did that to eliminate some driveline harmonics. Time will tell.

General...I saw a post about nitrous, hmmm, what could you be up to???
Also the renewed interest in the trans.....come on, fess up!:D:D
Bill

General,
My spare (thanks to the members here) should arrive at Renntech in the am. It will take about one week (and $ 2,500) to teardown and rebuild with heavy duty components. I would love to have my "weak" components back for us to be able to buy the HD parts from Renntech and have your local shop do the rebuild. Not sure that is going to happen. I have already scheduled the transmission swap to be done at the dealer in about 2 weeks. I want to be sure it works properly before the new engine is installed. Hoping to have a TCM reprogrammed also. That may be an uphill battle though.

Not sure about the other company that is looking into replacing ALL internals and gears etc. with W5A900 parts. The only thing slowing me down is the $ 5,500 and core.

The spare transfer case arrived today. Sent it to a place in AZ that may be able to strengthen it.

The rear diff should be at Ira's tomorrow. Hopefully the 3" steel driveshaft also. I am a little nervous about the driveshaft not having a huge balancer on it. I believe the engineers did that to eliminate some driveline harmonics. Time will tell.

General...I saw a post about nitrous, hmmm, what could you be up to???
Also the renewed interest in the trans.....come on, fess up!:D:D
Bill

HEY!!!! Is that a picture of your motor???!!? NICE!!!!! Those look like 2"-2-1/4" headers on that baby!!!

Yup....heads have been ported and flowed with heavy work done to the intake manifold to match the head port and flow numbers at lift. Why waste your time on a CAI when the manifold cant flow to begin with!!! I seen actual flow bench numbers for a stock.....a Hogan sheetmetal.....and a ported/flowed stock manifold....I have the same set up as Ron/1bd4dr from the "other" site. Since I dont have desire for a blower, a "square 426 cid" is in the future but first I'm going to dabble with some NOS.:D

NOS.......a poor mans blower!:D