http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/texastourist/Decorated%20images/165151_191679614178156_118748348137950_735888_8155 287_n.jpg

Damn whats up sexy?

Im so glad they went with that type of intake manifold no more icing down at the track.

Sexxxxxxyyyyy!!!!

Im so glad they went with that type of intake manifold no more icing down at the track.

How can you tell from the picture Wade? Did you take this at the Auto show?

IDK just looks plastic type to me like on the 5.7 or the F.A.S.T manifolds, not a fan of the current manifold material.

Found this from Resumespeed:

The intake manifold is made of a composite material and features a dual shaft Short Runner Valve (SRV) system to maximize both low end torque and peak power. The SRV is bolted to the rear of the intake manifold and can be service separately from the manifold. The manifold uses a single plane sealing system with individual port seals and a separate PCV port seal to prevent leaks.

Thats sure is Purdyyyy !!!

Neat picture. Thanks Wade.

Composite intake, hmm.

I saw that working model in person...its composite.

Not having to ice down will br nice. However cars with these composite intake manifolds have had issues in boosted applications.

Not having to ice down will br nice. However cars with these composite intake manifolds have had issues in boosted applications.

Thats why you get a magna charger and do a direct manifold replacement blower :)

Now we're talking! 392 with a Maggie!

That's owesome! Thanks .

looks like it has an oil cooler.

The 6.4L VVT HEMI (392 CID) eight-cylinder SRT high performance engine is a 90° V-Type, deep skirt, lightweight cast iron block with aluminum heads, single cam, overhead valves, and hydraulic roller lifters.

This engine shares the same architecture as the 2009 5.7L HEMI with the following Performance Upgrades:

Increased Bore (103.9 mm (4.09 in.)
Increased Stoke (94.6 mm (3.72 in.)
Increased Valve Sizing

The 6.4L HEMI engine also has improved horsepower, torque and fuel economy as compared with the 6.1L HEMI engine. This is achieved with the larger displacement and the following Technical Improvements:

Variable Cam Timing (VCT) Cam Phasing System
Multi-Displacement System (MDS) (auto trans only)
High Flow Ports
Increased Maximum RPM
Combustion Chamber Shape
Higher Compression Ratio (10.9:1)

The 6.4L engine is equipped with Variable Valve Timing (VVT). This system uses an Oil Control Valve (OCV) to direct oil pressure to the camshaft phaser assembly. The camshaft phaser assembly advances and/or retards camshaft timing to improve engine performance, mid-range torque, idle quality, fuel economy and reduce emissions. The OCV is located under the intake manifold.

The heads incorporate splayed valves with a hemispherical style combustion chamber and dual spark plugs.

The engine oil cooler is engineered for maximum cooling efficiency with no restriction in oil flow. The oil cooler is a stack plate design coolant-to-oil heat exchanger. The oil cooler is mounted between the oil filter and the engine block. The oil cooler uses the radiator coolant system; coolant is circulated through two coolant hoses to maintain a consistent engine oil temperature.

The intake manifold is made of a composite material and features a dual shaft Short Runner Valve (SRV) system to maximize both low end torque and peak power. The SRV is bolted to the rear of the intake manifold and can be service separately from the manifold. The manifold uses a single plane sealing system with individual port seals and a separate PCV port seal to prevent leaks.

The exhaust manifolds are tube in shell air gap design to maximize durability and performance. The exhaust manifolds are made of stainless steel stamped shells and stainless steel tubes with a powdered metal outlet. A layered graphite over perforated steel manifold gasket is used to provide sealing to the cylinder head.

The valve guide seals are made of rubber and incorporate an integral steel valve spring seat. The integral garter spring maintains consistent lubrication control to the valve stems. The intake valve stem seal has a smaller valve spring seat compared to the exhaust valve stem seal. The intake and exhaust valve stem seals are identified by different colors.

The pistons are made of a high-strength aluminum alloy. Piston skirts are coated with a solid lubricant (Molykote) to reduce friction and provide scuff resistance. The piston top ring groove and land is anodized. The connecting rods are made of forged powdered metal with a “fractured cap” design. A floating piston pin is used to attach the piston and connecting rod.

Four dual-nozzle oil jets are bolted to the cylinder block underneath the main oil gallery. The jets connect with an oil-tight fit to the main gallery through lubrication passages. Each oil jet helps cool the two opposing pistons.

The cylinders are numbered from front to rear; 1, 3, 5, 7 on the left bank and 2, 4, 6, 8 on the right bank.

The firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.


MDS (auto transmission models only)

The Multiple Displacement System (MDS) provides cylinder deactivation during steady-speed, low-acceleration and shallow grade climbing conditions to increase fuel economy.

MDS can provide a 5-20% fuel economy benefit when operating in four-cylinder mode depending on driving habits and vehicle usage. For EPA rating purposes the fuel economy is 8-15% higher than if the engine was operating on eight cylinders at all times.

MDS is integrated into the basic engine architecture requiring these additional parts:

Unique MDS camshaft
8 deactivating roller lifters
4 control valve solenoids
Control valve solenoid wiring harness
Oil temperature sensor



6.4L Spec sheet attached (PDF)

Attached Files 2011_392_hemi_specs.pdf (47.6 KB, 217 views)



Good eye Andy

Cool pic

I like the move to the composite intake. I honestly expected FAST to come out with an intake for us hemi guys that is similar to there options for the LSX guys but it never happened. Glad to see Mopar wising up and getting away from that heatsoak magnet.

Now we're talking! 392 with a Maggie!

Yeah it would be nice but sadly the 392 is based off the 5.7 Hemi so the rods and pistons are not forged so we will be limited to oh about 6lbs of boost :( If you could get your hands on an 09/10 5.7 Hemi motor for cheap your better off having is stroked/bored than the 6.1 its a better built engine.

You don't have to ice the 6.1L, just hotlap it. Far more effective for cooling the intake.

Ummm where's the PDF?

Yeah it would be nice but sadly the 392 is based off the 5.7 Hemi so the rods and pistons are not forged so we will be limited to oh about 6lbs of boost :( If you could get your hands on an 09/10 5.7 Hemi motor for cheap your better off having is stroked/bored than the 6.1 its a better built engine.


"The connecting rods are made of forged powdered metal with a “fractured cap” design."

this article says the rods are forged. Pistons till aren't though :(

I know that this is old news, but leftlanenews.com spotted the 6.4L Hemi actually inside a next generation Grand Cherokee SRT8 test car back in August:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/jeep-grand-cherokee-srt8.html

You don't have to ice the 6.1L, just hotlap it. Far more effective for cooling the intake.

I think Wade would disagree with you there. You do realize you are talking to the guy who runs 12.2s with just a tune, 180 tstat, exhaust and cold air intake right? Full weight to boot. The cooler the air going into the engine, the denser it is, the more power you will make. Period.

J

Forged steel and Powder forged metals are two different processes. Powder forged is more cost effective, however there is positives of such a process. for

Not disputing what you guys say, and maybe it's an anomaly, but I've had more than one day where the DA and temp either rose (as in this example), or stayed roughly the same, and my times improved while hotlapping. Icing down always helped, but lowering IAT at the filter didn't. :confused: However that wasn't the case after I installed the blower. The IATs didn't rise significantly, but the manifold temps did. After about three hotlaps times would suffer until I iced it down. Hoping the icebox will battle some of that this season.

wink

Jerseyboy I'm not cracking on Wade at all - his times are awesome. I'm saying it is a proven fact that hotlapping is the best way to cool down your intake and get better times. Myself and everyone I have raced with (with a 5.7 or 6.1 hemi) has seen exactly the same effect. Wade could be running 12.1's if he hotplaps several times, who knows.

Icing just isn't as effective with these intakes.

Im so glad they went with that type of intake manifold no more icing down at the track.

I'm not saying the composite intake isn't better, but where does the heat go that would normally absorbed by our alloy intake from the block/heads? IIRC, someone once posted that a composite intake could case the block/heads to run hotter(I'm not saying it's true). Also does a stronger alloy intake add any usable strength to the engine(I doubt sense engines have had composite intakes for yrs)?

Jerseyboy I'm not cracking on Wade at all - his times are awesome. I'm saying it is a proven fact that hotlapping is the best way to cool down your intake and get better times. Myself and everyone I have raced with (with a 5.7 or 6.1 hemi) has seen exactly the same effect. Wade could be running 12.1's if he hotplaps several times, who knows.

Icing just isn't as effective with these intakes.

I know for a fact that Wade has hot lapped his truck and it has slowed down on each run. If your calibration is correct, and track prep is good, you will run quicker with some cool off and icing between runs. The cooler the air going into the engine, the more power you will make. It's physics and you cannot beat physics. That is not to say something else is not changing during your runs. Was your MPH the same on each run or did you pick up?

J

I'm not saying the composite intake isn't better, but where does the heat go that would normally absorbed by our alloy intake from the block/heads? IIRC, someone once posted that a composite intake could case the block/heads to run hotter(I'm not saying it's true). Also does a stronger alloy intake add any usable strength to the engine(I doubt sense engines have had composite intakes for yrs)?

Intake manifolds are never designed to be part of the cooling package or be a structural member of the engine. They are strictly a manifold to direct air into the heads. Any heat absorbed by the intake is strictly a by product of it having to be bolted to the heads and is not intended to augment the cooling system.

J

Intake manifolds are never designed to be part of the cooling package or be a structural member of the engine. They are strictly a manifold to direct air into the heads. Any heat absorbed by the intake is strictly a by product of it having to be bolted to the heads and is not intended to augment the cooling system.

J

Some older small blocks were plumbed/part of the cooling system. I don't know if any modern engines are like that anymore.

I've never been able to run quicker by hot lapping, so many variables to consider by those who do hot lap and run quicker, but lets stay on topic.

I know for a fact that Wade has hot lapped his truck and it has slowed down on each run. If your calibration is correct, and track prep is good, you will run quicker with some cool off and icing between runs. The cooler the air going into the engine, the more power you will make. It's physics and you cannot beat physics. That is not to say something else is not changing during your runs. Was your MPH the same on each run or did you pick up?

J


I pick up both trap speed and lower ET with each hotlap, up to a maximum of about 5 in a row. At that point you level out. As for beating physics, maybe things have changed in the 15 years since I got my undergrad B.S. in Physics... but let me explain:

Hotlapping means do a run, then immediately do another run - no waiting in line, no staging lane waiting. I mean you only hit the brakes to line up at the tree. If you have to stop for even 3-5 minutes between runs you will start heat soaking and it will kill the benefits

The goal is to have the coldest, and thus densest air entering your engine. The denser the air at a given O2 concentration, the more oxygen molecules per stroke are available to support combustion. More power. We agree on this.

A hot manifold works in opposition to this, but it is the inner surface of the manifold that matters. The surface that conducts and radiates heat to mass of incoming air. One way to cool this surface is to place ice on the outside and wait loooong periods of time for conductive heat transfer to reduce the temperature throughout the thickness of this high thermal mass hunk of metal. OR...

You can run a massive volume of ambient temprature air through the inside of the manifold at an extremely high flow rate. In other words, you could make a pass down the track with a wide open throttle body. This is the most effective way to cool the inside surface of the intake without using nitrous. Now, once you have completed your cooling by making a pass, the clock is ticking. The outside of the manifold is hot and that heat is transferring throughout the material and will quickly conduct to the inside surface, heating it back up again. So you have to run again, SOON or you lose the cooling effect.

So in addition to many passes worth of empirical evidence, the physics backs up the fact that hotlapping cools the inner surface of the manfold while ice cools the outer surface. And a cold outer surface does nothing for you.

That said - if you ice for looooooong enough (to overcome the heat transfer time and big thermal mass of the metal intake) and then immediately run with no waiting, it will have the same effect, but the wait times are just so long to get any effect that I would rather get the results in 12.7 seconds by running down the track.

**Edit** Sounded to preachy, I hate people who sound preachy, HH I get the above maybe one day I can hit up a track with no lines and test it out myself would be awesome if I could pull it off and run faster.
Wonder how long it will take Diablo to crack the PCM on this one?

Yes luckily at our local track, the last about 25 minutes usually you can hotlap like this (like only 3 or 4 cars are still racing). If I had never tried this in those conditions I would agree with you guys that icing is best, because like I said if you wait even 5 minutes it doesn't really work. But keep it in mind if you ever find yourself at a track where this type of hotlapping is possible - it really will help your times.

Since we're still OT ;) The logs I posted above were with zero to 30 or more cars between runs. The later it gets, the more the lanes fill up. I call it hotlapping if you just keep lining up.

wink

**Edit** Sounded to preachy, I hate people who sound preachy, HH I get the above maybe one day I can hit up a track with no lines and test it out myself would be awesome if I could pull it off and run faster.
Wonder how long it will take Diablo to crack the PCM on this one?

Cool Wade. Sorry to bump your thread off topic and I hope I'm not sounding preachy either. I feel like people sometimes get locked into ideas though and "hotlapping is always bad" is one of them. Hopefully some people can benefit and get better times if the conditions afford themselves and they try it. I know it's worked with a couple guys at my track who I've helped convince to try it! Just come down to Baytown one Friday and hang out until 11:40pm and you'll get to try it (this week will be great DAs btw!!)

HH, I see your point and beleive me, I know thermodynamics, airflow and physics. It's been about 10 years since I got my BS in Mechanical Engineering. One of my first jobs was doing Thermal surveys on internal combustion engines. Ever seen and engine with 180 thermocouples in it? LOL

I think the big disconnect we have is how quick you can hot lap vs how long you can cool down. I've never been able to make a pass then pull right back up to the lights so I have never experienced your version of hotlapping. Last time I was at the track we have over an hour between runs. Some people are more patient then others at the track. If you want to make alot of runs, icing the intake is not the way to go. I think we both agree that if you ice long enough it will make a difference. (heat tranfer across the aluminum works both ways right?). Hopefully Wade can make ti down to Baytown to test out your method. Maybe he could be the first stock cam jeep in the 11s? ;-)

Good post, thanks for clarifying.

Back on Topic, I know someone was supposed to try to run a 5.7 Eagle intake on a 6.1 on an engine dyno. I'll have to check with them and see what the results were. The Eagle intake is very similar to the 6.1, just in composite. It probably won't show heat transfer benefits but it will give us an idea of the power capability of the two intakes on the same engine in controlled conditions (same ECT, IAT, Humidty etc). Not sure if we could get the varaible runner Ram truck intake to work with the 6.1 controller but that would be trick ;-)

J

Some older small blocks were plumbed/part of the cooling system. I don't know if any modern engines are like that anymore.

That was strictly as a coolant crossover, not for heat rejection. The GM LS engines had a spider on top of the engine (under the intake) that would help purge air from the system but they have since gone away from that. Most modern engiens run a dry intake and intentionally keep heat away from the intake manifold.

J