Someone was asking for an overlay between a 6.1 and a 426. Here is ekaz's Jeep.

2008 Jeep SRT8
PWR 426 Shortblock
11:1 CR
PWR Mean Street Heads
PW-232 Camshaft
Stock Manifold
Stock TB
Longtube Headers
Catback Exhaust


2750rpm: 48rwhp/90rwtq (That tq is what makes a 426 so fun to drive)
3500rpm: 93rwhp/140rwtq (Again, the tq is allot of fun, lol)
4500rpm: 126rwhp/157rwtq
5500rpm: 132rwhp/127rwtq



I imagine with the ported intake/100mm tb combo we will see another 10-15 gain across the board. A Vortech 6.1 will also make 500rwhp, but they will never increase tq by 150 in the mid-range like a 426 and a naturally aspirated 426 will last allot longer than a boosted stock engine. This is all assuming 5-7psi from the Vortech.




http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab175/PW-Racing/Dyno/Ekaz-1.jpg

Nice! It would also be cool to see the overlay of either, both stock, or both with the same basic mods.

wink

Nice! It would also be cool to see the overlay of either, both stock, or both with the same basic mods.

wink

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab175/PW-Racing/Dyno/61vs393vs426.jpg

The 6.1 and the 393 have the same cam which explains the same peak hp. The 393 has 23 more cubes than the 6.1 which explains the gain in low rpm power. The 426 has the same heads, but a bigger cam and a stock intake manifold/tb combo which explains why the gain was larger down low than up top. With a ported intake and 100mm tb, the gain will carry through the entire rpm band.

Thanks alot Andy!

So with 11:1 compression can you run any juice or boost with it? I know low compression is better for boost but if you got bord with just the 426 and didnt want to strip it down could you add to it?

Thanks

Newfie.

i wouldnt run more than 5psi with an 11:1 motor. You can install thicker head gaskets to lower the compression and easily run 10-12psi. jdoc did exactly that. He started with an 11:1 motor and then installed thicker head gaskets to lower the compression and is now running 10-12psi with his whipple.

a naturally aspirated 426 will last allot longer than a boosted stock engine. This is all assuming 5-7psi from the Vortech.


about how much longer, andy

being an engine builder, we hear about all the supercharged stock engine failures. I would assume that a stock motor with a Vortech probably wont last much more than 30,000 miles. The 426 will easily run over 50,000 miles without breaking a sweat.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab175/PW-Racing/Dyno/61vs393vs426.jpg

The 6.1 and the 393 have the same cam which explains the same peak hp. The 393 has 23 more cubes than the 6.1 which explains the gain in low rpm power. The 426 has the same heads, but a bigger cam and a stock intake manifold/tb combo which explains why the gain was larger down low than up top. With a ported intake and 100mm tb, the gain will carry through the entire rpm band.

Excellent! That's exactly what I was hoping to see. You da man!

Thanks Andy!

wink

i wouldnt run more than 5psi with an 11:1 motor. You can install thicker head gaskets to lower the compression and easily run 10-12psi. jdoc did exactly that. He started with an 11:1 motor and then installed thicker head gaskets to lower the compression and is now running 10-12psi with his whipple.

That is correct. I started with 11:1 compression and added a thicker head gasket to lower compression to 10:1 running 11 psi on my Whipple without any issues.

Nice comparison Andy!! Is there any way you can compare Ekaz's Dyno sheet to a stock 6.1 Liter with a Vortech at 8 psi just see how it looks on an A@WD Dyno jet like the one taht Eric was on? I really want to see what the torque difference is. Now as far as Erics Jeep now try to convice him to hit the track with me one of these days:D

i dont have a dyno file with the vortech. If some sends me one I can overlay them.

i dont have a dyno file with the vortech. If some sends me one I can overlay them.

Got ya! Hopefully someone has one on an AWD Dynojet that they can send you. Anyone???

It would be nice to see! you can get a vortech for what? 5000??? whats a Long block 426 worth? Nothing being installed just the price.

What offers better 1/4mile times? More power? what will kill a tranny faster?

Help us STUNNN people out, give us a bit of advice....;)

Newfie.

426 longblock: $9995
http://pwrparts.com/PWR-426ci-Forged-Longblock-PW-61426LB.htm

:eek:Ouch!!! that stings

I want one! Andy I'd like to run 11.5's in my Jeep on all motor. Do you think that would be could be done easily with a 426?

lchevere ran 11.4 with his, but I wouldnt call it easy. 11.75 would be easy. 11.5 in really good air with a good launch.

How is the tuning done for your engines Andy? Do you provide a base tune or is the buyer up to their own devices to tune it?

We provide a base tune to be modified by the end user. You have a great tuner not far from you.

lchevere ran 11.4 with his, but I wouldnt call it easy. 11.75 would be easy. 11.5 in really good air with a good launch.
11.75 still an awesome E.T. in a N/A 4800lb vehicle! The 11.4 is bad assed N/A! I only have 91 octane here in Maine. Do you think I could still use your 11-1 motor?

That's still an awesome E.T. in a N/A 4800lb vehicle! I o ly have 91 octane here in Maine. Do you think I could still use your 11-1 motor?

Absolutely. We run 12:1 in some motors with 93 octane. I have several 11:1 motors in 91 octane areas and they are running with 0 issues.

That is awesome times!!! I wish I would run those times up here with that 426, I'd be lucky if I hit the low 12s.
Hey Andy are you going to be having another sale on short blocks over the winter? Or even long blocks?

That is awesome times!!! I wish I would run those times up here with that 426, I'd be lucky if I hit the low 12s.
Hey Andy are you going to be having another sale on short blocks over the winter? Or even long blocks?

Tell me what you think is a fair price and we will look at doing something starting next week. Been wanting to do a fall sale.

See thats why i hate the Iphones,Stupid double post!!!

Honestly i have no right to tell you what to sell things for, you are the Master builder here, so all i can do is take you advice and buy it when i have the money. On that can the sale wait until february? my jeep will be parked here in about 2 weeks for winter and i just shelled out 6k for a tranny for my truck.

Newfie.

If the price is right I will be ready for a 426 over the next month or so. Fall sales are good....

Andy, do the emissions readiness monitors run with this engine installed in a Jeep? Do any MIL or CEL lights come on as a result of having this engine installed? I have to pass OBD emissions tests here.

Just don't go crazy with the cam and keep the factory cats in place and you will have no issue passing emmissions.

But specifically I need to know if the readiness monitors will run. I had no issues with emissions on my supercharged 5.7L hemi and no MIL or CEL lights either (I could have passed a smog test 100 times) but I still couldn't pass emissions - failed time after time.

A smog test is no longer an option here, just the OBD Readiness Monitors. If you aren't familiar with them, they can either run or not run based on drive trace parameters that are not published and they are only loosely correlated to malfunction lights. I still to this day don't know what caused them not to run in my truck, but even a non-emissions related wire having a flaky ground can cause it. They are hyper sensitive to many things in the vehicle...

As stated above, you will have no issues. All sensors are active and functioning without alteration as long as cam isn't too big and factory cats are used.

As stated above, you will have no issues. All sensors are active and functioning without alteration as long as cam isn't too big and factory cats are used.

Same deal in my truck too - still failed. Do you have an existing 2008 Jeep customer with a motor installed that can check this?

Also with the higher compression how much higher are EGT's vs stock?

I dont know what else you want me to say. After being a part of 150 strokers since 2006, we have not had any issues passing emmissions anywhere including California which is the hardest state to pass. As for EGT's, I have never measured them on a stock car nor any NA car. 10.3:1 stock vs 11:1 with a larger cam is going to have very similar EGT's. 11:1 with a stock cam would increase EGT's though.

Andy do you build iron block 440's? If so whats you out look on one vs. the other? Longevity?

I dont know what else you want me to say. After being a part of 150 strokers since 2006, we have not had any issues passing emmissions anywhere including California which is the hardest state to pass. As for EGT's, I have never measured them on a stock car nor any NA car. 10.3:1 stock vs 11:1 with a larger cam is going to have very similar EGT's. 11:1 with a stock cam would increase EGT's though.

It's a big investment thats all. If it doesn't pass - I'm screwed. Can't drive to work, can get past the gate at my job. A supercharger should have no effect on this either but it did. I don't think I'm being out of line asking more than a "truuuust me, it will be all a-ok" response. All I am asking for is to get someone with an 08 to hook an ODB reader up and verify their readiness monitors will run. If that's too much to ask then I have all the information I need about your customer service.

It's a big investment thats all. If it doesn't pass - I'm screwed. Can't drive to work, can get past the gate at my job. A supercharger should have no effect on this either but it did. I don't think I'm being out of line asking more than a "truuuust me, it will be all a-ok" response. All I am asking for is to get someone with an 08 to hook an ODB reader up and verify their readiness monitors will run. If that's too much to ask then I have all the information I need about your customer service.

I believe within the tune o2 sensors can be disabled which will fail you during inspection. I remember reading about some guys that were always in a unready state and this was fixed by Johan who turned the sensors back on.

OK I'm done. I understand you guys are trying to respond, but very few people understand the readiness monitors algorithms. I have done extensive research on it because I was unable to get my truck passed from the time they instituted OBD emissions in Texas. I know you aren't trying to insult me with the "turn on your front O2s" suggestion, but trust me I am not a moron, we tried everything. There was no fix, there was no evident cause, and most mechanics don't have any idea what to do. Tuners especially don't know anything about it.

I get that Andy is probably annoyed because I'm asking questions, but he's selling a $10,000 component for this vehicle and as a potential customer I have to know that he can absolutely prove this won't make my Jeep illegal to drive on Texas highways. He clearly feels that it is a minor issue not worth even a minimal level of effort on his part. He wants me to just trust him when he clearly doesn't even understand the question I'm asking. Fine - he doesn't get my $10,000. That is how capitalism works.

I'm not trying to bother people or be a jerk. To me, $10,000 is a lot of money. To you guys it may not be. But I have to ask the question.

OK I'm done. I understand you guys are trying to respond, but very few people understand the readiness monitors algorithms. I have done extensive research on it because I was unable to get my truck passed from the time they instituted OBD emissions in Texas. I know you aren't trying to insult me with the "turn on your front O2s" suggestion, but trust me I am not a moron, we tried everything. There was no fix, there was no evident cause, and most mechanics don't have any idea what to do. Tuners especially don't know anything about it.

I get that Andy is probably annoyed because I'm asking questions, but he's selling a $10,000 component for this vehicle and as a potential customer I have to know that he can absolutely prove this won't make my Jeep illegal to drive on Texas highways. He clearly feels that it is a minor issue not worth even a minimal level of effort on his part. He wants me to just trust him when he clearly doesn't even understand the question I'm asking. Fine - he doesn't get my $10,000. That is how capitalism works.

I'm not trying to bother people or be a jerk. To me, $10,000 is a lot of money. To you guys it may not be. But I have to ask the question.

If you leave the stock exhaust exhaust in place (manifolds, mids, cats, etc) you should have no issues with passing any emissions anywhere. The distance between the front and rear O2's plays a part in this whole equation as well.
Most issues that I've seen with emissions come from longtube headers being installed, not engines. I have never had any issues with anything that Andy has recommended or had any need to second guess what he told me.
Call Andy or Brad or Justin and they will happily answer all your questions. I had multiple hour long conversations with Andy before committing to my new engine.
I apologize if you were asking something else, but I was just skimming the thread.

I understand. I'm just highly sensitive to this because of the year long problem with my truck. Sorry to come off too harsh guys. I'm sure its a great product.

I agree that most OBD2 emissions testing issues with the Jeeps are due to long tube headers and high flow cats. Rear O2s are disabled often in tunes due to codes thrown by them.....thus making them not in a ready state for OBD2 testing.

06 guys have gotten by using antifoulers to space the O2 sensor out of the exhaust stream some to keep from setting a code. Some 07+ guys are experimenting with different options to pass emissions with headers as well.

I think there is substantial misunderstanding of what I am talking about here. You can't get a code if the readiness monitors are not running.

Not Running is NOT EQUAL to Not Passing

The criteria for the readiness monitor to run has absolutely nothing to do with the pass/fail criteria for the actual code. Further, the exact conditions required to enter the run state on a readiness monitor is not always published, even in the dealership service manual.

For example: On my truck I had NO CODES, repeat NO CODES. I failed ODB emissions testing because I had three readiness monitors not running: O2 System, Cat System, Evap System. Even with a stock tune and stock MAP sensor installed, these monitors would not run. So a reasonable person asks why won't they run? Mind you they are not "failing", they are just not running. I was able to dig up PART of the criteria for the Cat System Monitor and it included things like: ECT must be greater than 150 degF AND vehicle speed must be greater than 45 mph for at least 1 minute AND ... etc etc etc.

So you can see from this that, for instance, if I had a bad wheel speed sensor, I would never pass emissions because the Cat System Readiness Monitor would always read NOT READY. Likewise, if my Engine Coolant Temp sensor was stuck at 100 degrees or had an intermittent ground wire, etc I would also never pass emissions.

The problem is these criteria are not given anywhere. I have read mechanics trade magazines that say the same thing. People bring them these cars that won't pass emissions and they have no idea how to fix the cars. None of this is as simple as you guys are thinking right now. Its a severe problem for anyone who has to submit to OBD testing. In Texas, there is no option whatsoever to do a tailpipe test even though the whole purpose is supposedly pollution prevention.

I think I do understand what you are talking about. I just threw out there that maybe you had a tune in which the tuner disabled one of the systems which has been seen in a number of tunes. As stated, many times a tuner will disable the rear 02 sensor which will not throw a single code/CEL but when they hook up to the computer at the inspection station will give a non ready state resulting in a no pass. This is not your case. Did you ever replace the ECM? Ever make it a warranty issue? Once emissions\inspection come into play federal law takes over. If you have a car that will not pass emissions inspection then you are covered for a minimum of 8 years/80,000miles for most major components.

I had a 2005 Volvo S40 that was out of warranty. The car kept throwing a primary o2 sensor code so I couldn't pass inspection. Dealer replaced the sensor 2 times and it still threw a code. Dealer did over 20 hours of troubleshooting on the system and finally found it to be a bad ecm. Everything was covered free of cost because of the federal emissions warranty.

Houston, i know exactly what you are referring to and never said to just "trust me". In fact i clearly stated that we have never had a problem passing emmissions. I also stated that all sensors are at factory settings and untouched. This is the only way to pass emmissions where they check for"ready status". Simply turning them off is an immediate failure. Im not sure how my customer service came into question here. Im sorry but i do not have any customers with an obdII scanner to check this for you, but as stated before, i have numerous that pass wihout any issue and without any manipulation to factory sensors. Hope this helps.