A long story...but a happy ending.

It has been more than two years in the Quad Cities since the last holdout BP stations stopped carrying 93 octane free of Ethanol. They all converted back to only 91 and thankfully still Ethanol free. This is the best premium we could get in the area as Shell locally had moved to Ethanol in all grades and not just the 89 (still carried 93, but with Ethanol). Shell and BP are the only two name brands left in town as everything else is small and local.

Based on my random station searches of the entire area, scouring message forums and asking everyone I know, I finally hit pay dirt. An old message post from 2008 (not this site) indicated that there were two Shell stations at that time that still carried the good stuff. Both stations are on the other side of town from where I live but last week I had a chance to drive over there for a look. The first Shell station on W Locust and I-280 was a negative as it was 93 octane, but 10% Ethanol. I didn't have an exact address or intersection for the second station so I stopped at every Shell station I could find on W Locust (probably hit at least 10).

Then finally there it was at the intersection of W Locust and Fillmore St in Davenport. There was big sign welcoming me that said "We have 93 Octane without Ethanol". This was a strange sight at this was not your everyday Quickie Mart gas station, but an actual "Service" Station with one row reserved for "FULL" service at the pump (along with two service bays). Unfortunately on that day it was Sunday, the station was closed, and despite the new pumps there was no way to pay at the pump. I was forced to fill up with 91 at the BP next door.

So I burned off but the last 3 gallons of gas and headed over to the station today. As I was filling up a new M3 also pulled in for the 93 octane, we both complemented each other on our rides. When I went inside to pay it wasn't your normal gas station hourly employee working the register. It was the station manager dressed in "Service Station" uniform. He complemented me on the Jeep as soon as I opened the door and commented on fact the SRT8 are rare sight (especially in this area). I let him know I was glad to find Ethanol free 93 octane again, and he told me they have a hard time keeping the tanks full and an even harder time resupplying the tanks. They hope to keep this supply chain open this time.

As I walked back to the Jeep, an elderly gentlemen was looking hard at my vehicle. As I got back in the driver seat, I kept seeing him going around the back and checking out both sides. He went back to his car to finish filling his tank, but when I started the engine, he peeked around the corner again.

All in all this was a satisfying experience and worth the time and effort to fill up on the other side of town. Short of emergencies I will be a regular at that station and I will be taking the RS4 over there in the next day or two for a good tank full.

So my question to the forum members...is there much power difference between 91 and 93?

I have to ask, not saying its not true, but how do you know it really doesnt have the Ethenol? Does Shell still make gas without it? I just have a hard time believing its worth their time and effort to produce non ethenol gas since the majority of gas stations have it..educate me.

I have to ask, not saying its not true, but how do you know it really doesnt have the Ethenol? Does Shell still make gas without it? I just have a hard time believing its worth their time and effort to produce non ethenol gas since the majority of gas stations have it..educate me.

I admire your dedication cobraz but I was thinking the samething. Would they really produce non-Ethanol fuel if only 1 gas station carried it? Out by me in NJ everything is Ethanol!

Sure there is no way to prove it is Ethanol free, short of taking a sample to a lab. I do believe in the label markings around the area for which grades contain Ethanol (only about 1 in 3 grades contain Ethanol). After living here in the Midwest for the last five years, I do tend to believe more of what the people are saying is actually true (definitely not the case in New England or the South based on my past experiences -- generalization and does not apply to everyone). The fact the manager said they have a hard time getting a supply makes me a little more confident that it is truly Ethanol free.

The biggest difference you see right away with Ethanol blended gas is poorer gas mileage. I'm usually stuck when driving through Illinois with only Ethanol options and I can see a a couple MPG drop in most vehicles. With the Jeeps already low gas mileage it might be less noticeable. When I took delivery in Cleveland and drove back to Iowa (500 miles) I had two fill ups with 93 Ethanol free premium and and averaged about 13.1 MPG on the highway (always reset at fill-up). After filling up in Illinois with 93 blended with Ethanol my mileage dropped to around 11.5. Now driving habits, traffic and elevation can factor in (though Indiana and Illinois are both pretty flat), I did see a slight drop (I know this is very unscientific)

Ethanol is still a state to state and even region to region issue. Here in Iowa the Ethanol blended gas is usually the mid grade 89 octane and is about 10 cents cheaper than Ethanol free 87 octane at all stations. When heading East, as soon as I cross the Illinois border back into Indiana, Ethanol free 93 octane is easy to find at most stations. My family is still down in Lexington, Kentucky and all the Shell stations there are Ethanol free with 93 octane premium. We also still travel back to North Caroline (Raleigh and New Bern) to visit friends and family and 93 Ethanol free gas is plentiful there too.

Check here man.

The website pure-gas.org lists 1,269 stations across the country –– out of a total of about 115,000 stations –– that sell ethanol-free gas.

1st off all you will make more hp with ethanol in the gas. It puts oxygen in it and the more you have the more power you will make. Try running at the track without ethanol then go back with it and see if theres any diff.99.8% OF ALL 91 & 93 WILL HAVE 3.1/3.5% oxygen and in the winter it has 3.8%. CA is the only mandated state with 1.8%oxygen. OREGON is another state that use to offer non ethanol gas.
After talking to the vp and sunoco tecks they said in time all gas will have ethanol and vp may have to switch to it as most there gas has mtbe instead of ethanol. MTBE has beem banned in most state in the pump gas as its really only used for off road uses only. I mixed a 10 gal batch of 93 with 3.29% oxygen and at same DA ran .21 & 1.3 mph faster than our ca 91 with 1.8% oxygen.

1st off all you will make more hp with ethanol in the gas. It puts oxygen in it and the more you have the more power you will make. Try running at the track without ethanol then go back with it and see if theres any diff.99.8% OF ALL 91 & 93 WILL HAVE 3.1/3.5% oxygen and in the winter it has 3.8%. CA is the only mandated state with 1.8%oxygen. OREGON is another state that use to offer non ethanol gas.
After talking to the vp and sunoco tecks they said in time all gas will have ethanol and vp may have to switch to it as most there gas has mtbe instead of ethanol. MTBE has beem banned in most state in the pump gas as its really only used for off road uses only. I mixed a 10 gal batch of 93 with 3.29% oxygen and at same DA ran .21 & 1.3 mph faster than our ca 91 with 1.8% oxygen.

Based on my experience I have to agree. Oxygen is what makes the power, at least up here. I've tried Conoco 91 + Sunoco 100, Conoco 91 + Sunoco 104, and Sunoco 100 + Sunoco 104. The Conoco and Sunoco 100 both have the same oxygen content and there was no difference between them performance wise. Only the mixes with the higher oxygen content 104 improved my times.

So Jim, what do you think Ethanol free 91 would have as far as oxygen? There's a station on the southside that supposedly sells it. Also would you need to adjust your tuning to use Ethanol free?

wink

I think its time to switch to E85 LOL....no really seriously.

Ethanol can increase performance, but only in an engine that is designed for it. I know of no mass produced automotive engines designed to run on Ethanol.
E 10 is still 87 octane, it is NOT a higher octane fuel than E 0. Yes Ethanol will boost octane, and if it were blended with 87 octane gas, then the mix would be higher octane than 87, but it is blended with base stock that is lower than 87, it raises the octane to 87.
The engines that all of us drive will get less mileage with E 10 than E 0
Flex fuel vehicles that can burn E 85 are not engines that are designed to burn ethanol unfortunately,they are gas engines that have been modified to burn E 85th
Ethanol will not come into it's own in my opinion until there are engines available that are designed to burn ethanol.
The thought was with Ethenol blended gas was to clean up carbon deposits in cars, raise octane level and increase compression ratio and run cooler. The downside to the Ethenol blend that has many worried is what its doing over the years to their fuel lines, fuel tanks, filters, etc that were not designed to handle ethenol and the rumor that Ethenol attracts water and possibly freezing gas lines in the winter but that would take alot of water for that to happen. I think older cars will get the most benefit of the ethenol blended gas with its cleaning agents and carbon removal.

I think its time to switch to E85 LOL....no really seriously.

Ok, so what's the oxygen content in that stuff, and is it bad for our engines, cats, etc.?

wink

E85 is like 105 octane but you cant run it in our engines

What alot of people do not realize that 93 Octane say at Shell or Mobil etc. that has the 10% Ethenol blend is really 91 octane that has Ethenol added to it at the last stage of blending to raise the octane to 93 the biggest problem I have with this is just like the oxygen content in most race gas, Ethenol has a VERY short shelf life hence why its added at the end of the process now once its pumped to a tanker, then moved to a regional holding tank, then pumped into another tanker that delivers it to a gas station, then added to the underground tanks with other gas that has been sitting for ????? you get the picture this is all part of the problem most of us are seeing with tunes and knock retard and why some gas 93 pump is better than others with Ethenol as there is no way to find out who is making out the 10% and who is adding less to their blend. So IMO there is no difference between 91 NON Ethenol gas and 93 Ethenol blended gas on any given day.....on that note do your leg work, data log and make up your own mind about what you just put in your tank.

WINK i dont no about non ethanol gas. I would think it would make less hp do to no oxygen in it. i NO VP MAKES LOTS OF THERE LEADED RACE GAS UNOXYGENTED and talk to a few that use it in there old muscel cars at the track and they said its lots easier to store as it has a longer shelf life than leaded oxygented gas.

Back to what Jim was saying about the VP 109 using the MTBE

In recent years, ethanol replaced MTBE for the oxygenation of conventional fuel.


MTBE is now banned in most states, due to studies that revealed it causes groundwater contamination and cancer.


(Ethanol also is used as a fuel for E85 blends, which has an 85% ethanol content.


The problem with replacing MTBE with etahnol, is that unlike MTBE ethanol readily attracts and absorbs water & moisture into the fuel.


Ethanol also has dramatically changed the shelf life of fuel - Fuel that did not contain ethanol had a shelf life of several years; Unlike ethanol-blend fuels which remain stable for a maximum of 90-100 days.


Test results on ethanol blend fuel shelf life were performed under ideal conditions (70 % humidity, properly sealed fuel system, lack of presence of rain/snow, etc.) - Therefore it is safe to assume that the shelf life and stability of fuels containing ethanol is much shorter than 90-100 days. The chemical name of ETHANOL is C2H5OH.
Chemically pure ethanol is a colorless liquid which looks like water but has a mild odor.


Gasoline is a refined product of petroleum crude oil, consisting of a mixture of hydrocarbons, additives, blending agents, dyes and more. Depending on the blend of gasoline, this mixture contains between 150 - 1000 different compounds.

WINK i dont no about non ethanol gas. I would think it would make less hp do to no oxygen in it. i NO VP MAKES LOTS OF THERE LEADED RACE GAS UNOXYGENTED and talk to a few that use it in there old muscel cars at the track and they said its lots easier to store as it has a longer shelf life than leaded oxygented gas.

Doubt I'd ever run it. Really just curious if there's a difference.

Back to what Jim was saying about the VP 109 using the MTBE

In recent years, ethanol replaced MTBE for the oxygenation of conventional fuel.


MTBE is now banned in most states, due to studies that revealed it causes groundwater contamination and cancer.


(Ethanol also is used as a fuel for E85 blends, which has an 85% ethanol content.


The problem with replacing MTBE with etahnol, is that unlike MTBE ethanol readily attracts and absorbs water & moisture into the fuel.


Ethanol also has dramatically changed the shelf life of fuel - Fuel that did not contain ethanol had a shelf life of several years; Unlike ethanol-blend fuels which remain stable for a maximum of 90-100 days.


Test results on ethanol blend fuel shelf life were performed under ideal conditions (70 % humidity, properly sealed fuel system, lack of presence of rain/snow, etc.) - Therefore it is safe to assume that the shelf life and stability of fuels containing ethanol is much shorter than 90-100 days. The chemical name of ETHANOL is C2H5OH.
Chemically pure ethanol is a colorless liquid which looks like water but has a mild odor.


Gasoline is a refined product of petroleum crude oil, consisting of a mixture of hydrocarbons, additives, blending agents, dyes and more. Depending on the blend of gasoline, this mixture contains between 150 - 1000 different compounds.

Interesting thing I read just last night that echoed almost verbatim what you just said, but they were saying about a week and it loses it's fizz. ;) But they were promoting non-ethanol, and from a motorcycle perspective. I also read another source last time the gas stuff came up. They said all the refiners use the same storage tanks and it's all the same regardless of where it came from. When the tanker backups up to fill up they look at the order and add the additives that make it this brand, that brand, this octane, etc.. I'm gonna stick to my Conoco 91 + Sunoco 104 mix. The buggy likes it and so does Johan. ;)

wink

Check here man.

The website pure-gas.org lists 1,269 stations across the country –– out of a total of about 115,000 stations –– that sell ethanol-free gas.

Interesting idea, but not very accurate as it is all self reporting. Almost all stations here in my area sell Ethanol free 87 and 91 (only 89 is blended), but not a single station is listed for the area (over 100 easy just on the Iowa side of the Quad Cities).

It would be a better idea to list stations carrying 93 or higher octane that are Ethanol free as this becoming the more unique list.

CentralTexHemi - thanks for the info and explanations, I learned a couple new things.

My biggest reasons for avoiding ethanol have been
1) Shelf life (some of my cars only get filled up every 4 to 6 weeks)
2) Risk of damage to fuel system components
3) Potential for moisture buildup
4) MPG

As stated actual HP impact may be negligible to none.

Check here man.

The website pure-gas.org lists 1,269 stations across the country –– out of a total of about 115,000 stations –– that sell ethanol-free gas.

That site had a link to an even better site with more information about Ethanol: http://www.fuel-testers.com/state_gu...anol_laws.html. The one thing that caught my eye was all the states I listed as having an easy supply of ethanol free 93 aren't required by law to disclose Ethanol content (though a lot of stations in those states still do post stickers on the pumps).

I may have to try their quick test with a 10:1 mix of gas and water in a jar and see what happens.

just be careful when you shake the jar it will build up pressure and may squirt out.
I thought corn was made for food and alcohol consumption cant we just keep it that way?

Once Hptuners comes out and when I pull the trigger on a supercharger, I will be on E85. Its not that hard to convert, larger injectors and a tune is all that is needed for most vehicles. I will upgrade the fuel delivery system though

Once Hptuners comes out and when I pull the trigger on a supercharger, I will be on E85. Its not that hard to convert, larger injectors and a tune is all that is needed for most vehicles. I will upgrade the fuel delivery system though

What does E85 do for a supercharger?

wink

It's all in the alcohol. It cools down the air temps and has a higher octane rating. All of this adds up to more timing which equals more power.

It's all in the alcohol. It cools down the air temps and has a higher octane rating. All of this adds up to more timing which equals more power.

Thanks! Was talking to the head of a local Grand Prix club at the track today. He had an Eaton unit on his car and mentioned E85. He said basically the same thing.

wink