Headers . . . [Archive] - Cherokee SRT8 Forum

: Headers . . .


RUDE8
05-23-2007, 12:38 PM
Boy am I glad I didn't just go out and buy headers impulsively (like I do just about everything else).

I don't want to get a great deal on some KOOKS headers and then get a stupid 'check engine light' message after spending all the loot.

I also don't want to feel good about getting a great deal on some KOOKS headers and then be told I have to spend another $300 + to get rid of the light (while at the same time buying another mod in the Dashawk).

Can anyone tell me a simple way to research a list of available manufacturers that produce quality header kits for our great vehicles that will not produce errors and require additional mod purchases to offset quirks?

I'm all ears . . . please . . .

rainmaker
05-23-2007, 12:54 PM
Search button is your friend, but since I'm bored at work right now...


There are two choices of headers for the GC SRT8 right now. Kooks which you seem to already know about and Stainless Works.

Other thank Gotstroke? I don't think anyone else has a set of Stainless Works on their Jeep right now cause they're new to market. SW did the right thing by using a higher cell cat and locating the O2 relative to each, so it doesn't set a CEL. I'm pretty sure they'll make good power too (~20 to the wheels).

IMO SW is the way to go for headers right now. Bang for the buck there might other areas to consider, but again that just my opinion...

FastSRT8GC
05-23-2007, 01:38 PM
Search button is your friend, but since I'm bored at work right now...


There are two choices of headers for the GC SRT8 right now. Kooks which you seem to already know about and Stainless Works.

Other thank Gotstroke? I don't think anyone else has a set of Stainless Works on their Jeep right now cause they're new to market. SW did the right thing by using a higher cell cat and locating the O2 relative to each, so it doesn't set a CEL. I'm pretty sure they'll make good power too (~20 to the wheels).

IMO SW is the way to go for headers right now. Bang for the buck there might other areas to consider, but again that just my opinion...


What he said^^^^

SilverSRT8
05-23-2007, 01:59 PM
What he said^^^^

I was trying to figure out which set of headers is the best. I dont care about CEL that much since I have dashhawk. Obviously I would rather not have.

I want the best bang for the buck

GotStroke?
05-23-2007, 02:22 PM
As stated above, you have two choices other than going custom ($$$), Kooks and Stainless Works. I don't think you can beat the GP/Sale pricing for Stainless Works products right now (Southern Hotrod) and their quality is second to none.
I have over 700 miles on my Jeep since the full Stainless Works exhaust install and no CEL/MILs. In all fairness though, while the light is annoying, the headers will still make power regardless.
There should be a few threads on the first two pages of this forum with more info on the Stainless Works/Kooks systems.

echo412
05-23-2007, 02:38 PM
As stated above, you have two choices other than going custom ($$$), Kooks and Stainless Works. I don't think you can beat the GP/Sale pricing for Stainless Works products right now (Southern Hotrod) and their quality is second to none.
I have over 700 miles on my Jeep since the full Stainless Works exhaust install and no CEL/MILs. In all fairness though, while the light is annoying, the headers will still make power regardless.
There should be a few threads on the first two pages of this forum with more info on the Stainless Works/Kooks systems.


Are you making 369WHP after or before those mods in your sig?

GotStroke?
05-23-2007, 05:36 PM
Are you making 369WHP after or before those mods in your sig?


I made the same before the full exhaust as after on the same dyno. The Jeep had around 6 miles on it between fitment and the dyno, and it bellowed black smoke when strapped down. It was obvious it was way too rich and timing was being pulled. I've yet to redyno since I've put more miles on the system, but it no doubt feels faster at this point than after I initially got it back.
I plan on redynoing after the B&G or Diablo tune at which point I think the full value of the exhaust will be realized.

GotStroke?
05-23-2007, 05:38 PM
Everything you wanted to know about the Stainless Works full exhaust: http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3819

WOT clips in the last post.

Inferno SRT8
05-23-2007, 05:39 PM
I made the same before the full exhaust as after on the same dyno. The Jeep had around 6 miles on it between fitment and the dyno, and it bellowed black smoke when strapped down. It was obvious it was way too rich and timing was being pulled. I've yet to redyno since I've put more miles on the system, but it no doubt feels faster at this point than after I initially got it back.
I plan on redynoing after the B&G or Diablo tune at which point I think the full value of the exhaust will be realized.


No CEL's yet? After I installed my headers it took a while to get the first CEL, do you have hi flow cats also?

Did your guy say that you would get a CEL or not?

GotStroke?
05-23-2007, 05:41 PM
No CEL's yet? After I installed my headers it took a while to get the first CEL, do you have hi flow cats also?

Did your guy say that you would get a CEL or not?


Tony,
Knock on wood, no CEL/MIL from either the full exhaust (with 3" metallic substrate cats) or the 176* T-stat. LOL, maybe my dashlight is burnt out;)
I don't think the SWorks guys knew for sure whether I'd trip one or not to be honest. The good news, as you know, is that the secondary 02 sensor MILs can't hurt performance.

Inferno SRT8
05-23-2007, 05:45 PM
Tony,
Knock on wood, no CEL/MIL from either the full exhaust (with 3" metallic substrate cats) or the 176* T-stat. LOL, maybe my dashlight is burnt out;)
I don't think the SWorks guys knew for sure whether I'd trip one or not to be honest. The good news, as you know, is that the secondary 02 sensor MILs can't hurt performance.


Good luck!

Its not the headers that causes the CEL guys its the hi flow catalytics, I think I got my first CEL with the KOOKS headers at 400+ miles.

GotStroke?
05-23-2007, 05:47 PM
One other comment. The SWorks LTs primaries are 1 3/4" vs. 1 7/8" for the Kooks. I spoke with Al Noe (former GM at SWorks) in detail about the primary diameter they chose for us (among other questions you can see in the thread linked above). Basically a 1 3/4" primary fits the exhaust port perfectly, whereas anything larger, such as 1 7/8" is not only too big for a street or street/strip 370CI, but there is also quite a bit of misalignment with the flange and port--even after a quality port job. Take it fwiw.
Tony or anyone else know the diameter of the collectors on the Kooks?

GotStroke?
05-23-2007, 05:48 PM
Good luck!

Its not the headers that causes the CEL guys its the hi flow catalytics, I think I got my first CEL with the KOOKS headers at 400+ miles.

Trust me, fingers are still crossed and (just checked the odo) I'm actually over 800 miles. :)

Inferno SRT8
05-23-2007, 05:51 PM
Trust me, fingers are still crossed and (just checked the odo) I'm actually over 800 miles. :)


WOW!! Thats great news I may have to switch to his Cats!

GotStroke?
05-23-2007, 05:53 PM
WOW!! Thats great news I may have to switch to his Cats!


They are 300cpi Random Tech metallic substrates. Placement is going to be as important as brand.

Inferno SRT8
05-23-2007, 05:56 PM
They are 300cpi Random Tech metallic substrates. Placement is going to be as important as brand.

The KOOKS hi flow cats are not side by side like yours, there more like the factory ones were, one is North South and the other is facing East West. And I always get the same CEL low catalytic efficiency Bank 1, hmmm

generalconfusion
05-23-2007, 07:02 PM
Trust me, fingers are still crossed and (just checked the odo) I'm actually over 800 miles. :)

If you dont have it now....... your not going to get one. The first time.....It took about 80 miles for me and Hows2nd before we got the CEL. The front sensor and rear sensor "talk" at each start up when the vehicle is cold. The front sensor will cycle with the rear 3 times before throwing the code. After that will happen about every 40 miles.

I think, since I'm going to keep the Jeep the Kooks are heading to EBAY or to anyone who wants to buy them.....after that its Stainless Works for me.

So Andy will they bolt up to the Corsa exhaust? If I remember correctly your pictures showed they would even bolt up to stock. Another words, the cats terminate where the stock cats would terminate.....right?

Inferno SRT8
05-23-2007, 07:16 PM
If you dont have it now....... your not going to get one. The first time.....It took about 80 miles for me and Hows2nd before we got the CEL. The front sensor and rear sensor "talk" at each start up when the vehicle is cold. The front sensor will cycle with the rear 3 times before throwing the code. After that will happen about every 40 miles.

I think, since I'm going to keep the Jeep the Kooks are heading to EBAY or to anyone who wants to buy them.....after that its Stainless Works for me.

So Andy will they bolt up to the Corsa exhaust? If I remember correctly your pictures showed they would even bolt up to stock. Another words, the cats terminate where the stock cats would terminate.....right?

Steve were going broke doing this sh*t!

SilverSRT8
05-23-2007, 07:34 PM
Steve were going broke doing this sh*t!


You're making me want to go broke just reading these!

Inferno SRT8
05-23-2007, 07:36 PM
You're making me want to go broke just reading these!


LMFAO!

There is no chance in hell im changing my KOOKS headers but I never said anything about the catalytics! :D

GotStroke?
05-23-2007, 08:12 PM
If you dont have it now....... your not going to get one. The first time.....It took about 80 miles for me and Hows2nd before we got the CEL. The front sensor and rear sensor "talk" at each start up when the vehicle is cold. The front sensor will cycle with the rear 3 times before throwing the code. After that will happen about every 40 miles.

I think, since I'm going to keep the Jeep the Kooks are heading to EBAY or to anyone who wants to buy them.....after that its Stainless Works for me.

So Andy will they bolt up to the Corsa exhaust? If I remember correctly your pictures showed they would even bolt up to stock. Another words, the cats terminate where the stock cats would terminate.....right?

You've got it Steve, they will mate to any catback on the market, including stock. Just specify which you have when ordering.

Krush
05-23-2007, 08:49 PM
Last question, how bads the install for the SW headers. Am I gonna have to pull the engine to ge these things in?

Inferno SRT8
05-23-2007, 08:55 PM
Last question, how bads the install for the SW headers. Am I gonna have to pull the engine to ge these things in?

No engine removal necessary for any headers.

GotStroke?
05-23-2007, 08:56 PM
What he said.

c24p13
05-23-2007, 08:56 PM
wow now im thinking of going with the Sworks.

So let me get this straight its the cats and not the headers?

GotStroke?
05-23-2007, 09:02 PM
wow now im thinking of going with the Sworks.

So let me get this straight its the cats and not the headers?

It's more the placement of the cats, then possibly the cats themselves. However, the placement issue is due to the additional length of a longtube header vs. a stock exhaust manifold.

c24p13
05-23-2007, 09:16 PM
then how do the SWorks seem to work??

GotStroke?
05-23-2007, 09:21 PM
then how do the SWorks seem to work??


If the evidence is me not having a CEL/MIL, then I'd say pretty well.

Inferno SRT8
05-23-2007, 09:24 PM
If the evidence is me not having a CEL/MIL, then I'd say pretty well.


Showoff! :D

Im going to call KOOKS tommorow and see if there is any update to the CEL issue with his headers and if he has no solution yet im buying these cats and having my exhaust shop install them the exact way GotStroke has his setup.

Even with the CEL I love my headers and not a chance im removing them, but I will remove the crappy catalytics in a blink of an eye.

generalconfusion
05-23-2007, 10:47 PM
Showoff! :D

Im going to call KOOKS tommorow and see if there is any update to the CEL issue with his headers and if he has no solution yet im buying these cats and having my exhaust shop install them the exact way GotStroke has his setup.

Even with the CEL I love my headers and not a chance im removing them, but I will remove the crappy catalytics in a blink of an eye.

Sweet lookin engine bay!!

BuilderBill
05-24-2007, 12:41 AM
If the evidence is me not having a CEL/MIL, then I'd say pretty well.

Great work Stroker, I will order the SS. to be used with my Mopar Catbacks.
This thread is not going to help Kooks sales!!
Nice to see a vendor stepping up and putting out a quality product.
Bill

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 01:27 AM
In all fairness to the Kooks guys, as soon as a handheld tuner (Diablo) is released, we won't have to deal with the 02 related CEL/MIL BS.
Did anyone with the reflash ever ask B&G if they have the ability to eliminate the secondary 02 MIL?

BuilderBill
05-24-2007, 05:15 AM
In all fairness to the Kooks guys, as soon as a handheld tuner (Diablo) is released, we won't have to deal with the 02 related CEL/MIL BS.
Stroker....please don't hold your breath on the tuner, you contribute too much here to lose you.
Bill

Hows2nd
05-24-2007, 10:17 AM
If you dont have it now....... your not going to get one. The first time.....It took about 80 miles for me and Hows2nd before we got the CEL. The front sensor and rear sensor "talk" at each start up when the vehicle is cold. The front sensor will cycle with the rear 3 times before throwing the code. After that will happen about every 40 miles.

I think, since I'm going to keep the Jeep the Kooks are heading to EBAY or to anyone who wants to buy them.....after that its Stainless Works for me.

So Andy will they bolt up to the Corsa exhaust? If I remember correctly your pictures showed they would even bolt up to stock. Another words, the cats terminate where the stock cats would terminate.....right?

Steve instead of switching out the headers (big $$$) I would look into the mid-pipes w/cats that Stainless Works sells. If the problem truly is the cats and placement on the KOOKS pipes I'd give it a shot or at least give them a call. If the Corsa bolts up to the system it's a possibility that the mid-pipes might bolt up to the KOOKS..... take a look at the pics gotstroke posted of his system http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3819 I think you could make it work with a little modding...

I think it's interesting that people are bashing KOOKS all of a sudden and going by what one guy is saying and HIS experience (no offence Stroke). I want to see some hard dyno #'s (or better yet some track times) and a few more write up's by other members before I'd start saying that the Stainless Works system is the only way to go. Bevs was the first with the KOOKS set up and they did baseline dyno runs before they developed the headers (w/ no cat back stock system) and then dynoed it after the headers and hi-flow cats were on and made great numbers the first run http://www.***********/forums/showthread.php?t=1545. They then dynoed it after it had a few miles on it a made even better #'s.

I had no cel for quite a while at first (with no cats), I think around 400 miles but that was all short trips no extended driving. As soon as I took a trip over a hundred miles I got the cel. BTW I would call and talk to Edwin over at Southern Hot Rod before jumping the gun, he makes some interesting points on the pro's and cons. I'm going to get the CEL regardless with off road pipes.

gbusy1906
05-24-2007, 11:17 AM
Just my 2 cents. Kooks headers have proven performance gains although you get a cel w/the package. Stainless works showed no performance gains on the dyno according to one source. However, it was mentioned the vehicle felt stronger after the install although dyno numbers showed no gain. Several members with Kooks showed at least 2/10s gains. In fact, Inferno has the quickiest 1/4 time and fastest mph I have seen to date with external performance parts.

I favor Kooks until there is documented proof that the SW or other brand headers provide equal to or more hp/tq increase.
Just my 2 cents.

Grip Grip
05-24-2007, 11:35 AM
Did anyone try the sparkplug anti-foulers I posted pictures of a few months back? $20 and I no longer get the CEL.

gbusy1906
05-24-2007, 11:46 AM
Grip, this is off the subject a little, have you done before and after testing with your Kooks headers? If so, what were the results? Sorry to change gears here but I would like to know b/f I make the final decision to order the Kooks since they are on "sale" Also, would you recommend them? PM me if you would like.
thanks for your feedback
Busy

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 11:54 AM
Stroker....please don't hold your breath on the tuner, you contribute too much here to lose you.
Bill


LOL, thanks Bill! :D

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 11:55 AM
Did anyone try the sparkplug anti-foulers I posted pictures of a few months ago back? $20 and I no longer get the CEL.


Wait...So those actually worked for you? Didn't Tommy2000 (??) use them, which in turn caused his truck to run like hell?

Grip Grip
05-24-2007, 12:02 PM
Wait...So those actually worked for you? Didn't Tommy2000 (??) use them, which in turn caused his truck to run like hell?

You guys never listen to me:rolleyes: They worked perfectly for me--like a charm.

Tommy posted that, but I find it very hard to believe that anti-foulers caused his truck to act up. Maybe it was something else.


$20 = No CEL (except the unrelated one I get from the cam :confused: )

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 12:05 PM
Just my 2 cents. Kooks headers have proven performance gains although you get a cel w/the package. Stainless works showed no performance gains on the dyno according to one source. However, it was mentioned the vehicle felt stronger after the install although dyno numbers showed no gain. Several members with Kooks showed at least 2/10s gains. In fact, Inferno has the quickiest 1/4 time and fastest mph I have seen to date with external performance parts.

I favor Kooks until there is documented proof that the SW or other brand headers provide equal to or more hp/tq increase.
Just my 2 cents.


I don't disagree with your want for more data, I'd be in the same boat. I will definitely head to the strip post tune (at which point Tony/Inferno and I will have essentially identical mods) and make some runs for the sake of comparison.
FWIW, Stainless Works headers have been compared to many other brands over the years, as they make exhausts for quite a few performance vehicles on the market. Not once have I ever personally seen them make less power than any other brand (American Racing, LG, BBK, Hooker, etc.) on a same car, same dyno test.
IMO, the 1 3/4" primary length SWorks uses is a better fit for a 6.1L motor, which will translate into more avg. HP/TQ (which wins races) than the larger diameter Kooks. I also believe the materials used by SWorks are of higher quality than those used by Kooks (everything from the Everlast 304 stainless to the accuseal clamps, to the Random Tech metallic cats). Finally Stainless Works' is the only true 3" catback system on the market, which again will provide gains over the 2.75" dia tubing everyone else uses.
If you're on the fence and can wait a few weeks for results do so. Otherwise there is absolutely no reason to believe that the SWorks system will make less power than Kooks/Mopar.

Grip Grip
05-24-2007, 12:08 PM
Grip, this is off the subject a little, have you done before and after testing with your Kooks headers? If so, what were the results? Sorry to change gears here but I would like to know b/f I make the final decision to order the Kooks since they are on "sale" Also, would you recommend them? PM me if you would like.
thanks for your feedback
Busy


I'm probably the last person you want advice from in regards to any of the items in my signature. I've got issues with my knock sensors maxing out and killing performance, so I really can't say one way or the other.

It's seems they've worked wonders for everyone else.

As for me, the only upgrades that will be taking place for the next year or so will be on my house.

candyman
05-24-2007, 12:22 PM
I don't disagree with your want for more data, I'd be in the same boat. I will definitely head to the strip post tune (at which point Tony/Inferno and I will have essentially identical mods) and make some runs for the sake of comparison.
Finally Stainless Works' is the only true 3" catback system on the market, which again will provide gains over the 2.75" dia tubing everyone else uses.
If you're on the fence and can wait a few weeks for results do so. Otherwise there is absolutely no reason to believe that the SWorks system will make less power than Kooks/Mopar.
Beg to differ on Stainless Works being the only 3" catback system http://www.bbexhaust.com/suv/cherokee/

SOUTHERNHOTROD
05-24-2007, 12:24 PM
I don't disagree with your want for more data, I'd be in the same boat. I will definitely head to the strip post tune (at which point Tony/Inferno and I will have essentially identical mods) and make some runs for the sake of comparison.
FWIW, Stainless Works headers have been compared to many other brands over the years, as they make exhausts for quite a few performance vehicles on the market. Not once have I ever personally seen them make less power than any other brand (American Racing, LG, BBK, Hooker, etc.) on a same car, same dyno test.
IMO, the 1 3/4" primary length SWorks uses is a better fit for a 6.1L motor, which will translate into more avg. HP/TQ (which wins races) than the larger diameter Kooks. I also believe the materials used by SWorks are of higher quality than those used by Kooks (everything from the Everlast 304 stainless to the accuseal clamps, to the Random Tech metallic cats). Finally Stainless Works' is the only true 3" catback system on the market, which again will provide gains over the 2.75" dia tubing everyone else uses.
If you're on the fence and can wait a few weeks for results do so. Otherwise there is absolutely no reason to believe that the SWorks system will make less power than Kooks/Mopar.

Just so you know.... KOOKS uses 304 Stainless too. Also..... B&B makes a full 3" catback.

Did you dyno your JEEP with the SW headers yet?

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 12:46 PM
Beg to differ on Stainless Works being the only 3" catback system http://www.bbexhaust.com/suv/cherokee/


Thanks for the correction. I wasn't aware B&B was a full 3" as well. Out of curiosity, has anyone else had the cracked weld issue that Inferno/Tony did with them?
I ran their catback on my Cobra years ago and liked it a lot, except for the tips.

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 12:48 PM
Just so you know.... KOOKS uses 304 Stainless too. Also..... B&B makes a full 3" catback.

Did you dyno your JEEP with the SW headers yet?


Edwin,
Is it 304 Everlast or just 304?

I dyno'd immediately after the install with around 6 miles on the system (this is covered in the thread I linked with all the info on SWorks exhausts), but it ran pig rich w/ no timing. I have yet to redyno since I've put some miles on it.

SOUTHERNHOTROD
05-24-2007, 12:52 PM
Thanks for the correction. I wasn't aware B&B was a full 3" as well. Out of curiosity, has anyone else had the cracked weld issue that Inferno/Tony did with them?
I ran their catback on my Cobra years ago and liked it a lot, except for the tips.
I have sold a LOT of B&B catback systems and have had only 1 with a crack. B&B is still the best choice in catbacks, IMHO.

SOUTHERNHOTROD
05-24-2007, 12:55 PM
Edwin,
Is it 304 Everlast or just 304?

I dyno'd immediately after the install with around 6 miles on the system (this is covered in the thread I linked with all the info on SWorks exhausts), but it ran pig rich w/ no timing. I have yet to redyno since I've put some miles on it.
Honstly I do not know what "Everlast 304 SS" is. I have never heard of it. :confused:

Why did it run so rich? I know for sure that when you put on KOOKS they run like a bat out of hell right out of the box.

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 01:23 PM
I have sold a LOT of B&B catback systems and have had only 1 with a crack. B&B is still the best choice in catbacks, IMHO.

In my experience, a matched system is better than one that's pieced together between different vendors. To each his own I suppose.

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 01:27 PM
Honstly I do not know what "Everlast 304 SS" is. I have never heard of it. :confused:

It's a brand of stainless. I'll put it like this, saying all 304 is identical is like saying all 2.5 carat diamonds are of the same quality. Everlast 304 is the highest quality 304 you can buy, the consistency of product is head and shoulders above the rest of the 304 out there. Which is why SWorks uses it.

Taken from the thread I linked on the first page of this thread:

3) What specific SS alloy is best to use for headers/exhaust, and what advantages does it have over other alloys? What are the differences between the different grades of stainless (304, 321, 409…..?)

Stainless is an excellent choice for exhaust systems due to its corrosion resistance. Starting in the early 90’s most OEM manufacturers went to 409 stainless for the increased durability and corrosion resistance-the EPA mandated that exhaust/emissions systems be warranted for 5 years minimum. 304 stainless, specifically, the Everlast grade that Stainless Works uses exclusively, will not rust or corrode over time (unless exposed to excessive amounts of road salt). Unlike aluminized steel, it will not rust from the inside out due to the corrosive fluids produced during combustion. All of Stainless Works 304 Everlast systems have a lifetime guarantee against defects in materials and workmanship.
Without getting into the specifics of metallurgical properties, 409 is what is typically used on OEM applications. It has fair corrosion resistance, is magnetic due to the high ferrite content, but is a less expensive material than 304. 409 is not an ideal material for a performance/restoration exhaust system because it will turn color (brownish/rust) from being exposed to the atmosphere without ever being run. For OEM’s who never care what the exhaust system looks like, it is a decent material that will last long enough to get past the warranty period. 304 stainless has much better corrosion resistance than 409. 304 will not turn color from sitting exposed to the atmosphere, and will only discolor slightly from getting extremely hot. The best thing about 304 is that you can maintain it with a scotch bright pad if you ever spill oil on it or have it discolor. Stainless Works only uses Everlast 304 stainless, which is a premium mil spec grade of stainless that is slightly more expensive than standard stainless, but is processed much more closely and is more consistent.



Why did it run so rich? I know for sure that when you put on KOOKS they run like a bat out of hell right out of the box.

I can't answer that question. Possibly due to the differences in design between the two systems? I also wonder reg. those who have dyno'd Kooks headers post install, how many drove around for a while before strapping their Jeep down. Again, in my case, we're talking about minimal distance/time for the PCM to adapt.
The real story will come from the track/dyno gains post tune/reflash.

Hows2nd
05-24-2007, 01:36 PM
It's a brand of stainless. I'll put it like this, saying all 304 is identical is like saying all 2.5 carat diamonds are of the same quality. Everlast 304 is the highest quality 304 you can buy, the consistency of product is head and shoulders above the rest of the 304 out there. Which is why SWorks uses it.

Taken from the thread I linked on the first page of this thread:







I can't answer that question. Possibly due to the differences in design between the two systems? I also wonder reg. those who have dyno'd Kooks headers post install, how many drove around for a while before strapping their Jeep down. Again, in my case, we're talking about minimal distance/time for the PCM to adapt.
The real story will come from the track/dyno gains post tune/reflash.

Check out the thread I posted....bevs jeep was tested right after install and then after he put some miles on it.

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 01:45 PM
One possible variable was that Mark changed only the headers during this test (correct?), I had everything done at once. Other than that I really can't say. Maybe the differing design of the SWorks sytem requires a tune/flash to get optimal results. Do we know exactly how far he drove post header install before the immediate after dyno?
Like I've said previously, there's no doubt in my mind that I'm making more power now. Hell, when I initially picked mine up it felt rather sluggish, but after the ~150 mile or so trip home, the power gains were definitely noticable--especially in third/fourth gear WOT pulls.
One thing's for sure, time will either prove me right or wrong. Based on their product history, I'd put my money on the former. ;)

Hows2nd
05-24-2007, 01:51 PM
One possible variable was that Mark changed only the headers during this test (correct?), I had everything done at once. Other than that I really can't say. Maybe the differing design of the SWorks sytem requires a tune/flash to get optimal results. Do we know exactly how far he drove post header install before the immediate after dyno?
One thing's for sure, time will either prove me right or wrong. Based on their product history, I'd put my money on the former. ;)

I agree with your last statement....:). I'm not sure how long after the header install he drove, I was going by the comments and the mileage on the first two dyno sheets. Is there anyone else running the SW system that can chime in with there results or track/dyno numbers?

gbusy1906
05-24-2007, 01:52 PM
Why would a tune/reflash be needed to show performance gains from a header/exhaust system install? It is my understanding that you will show some gain from a tune independently of the headers anyways. Thus, likewise you should show a gain from just installing headers independently of a tune. Kooks does just that from information provided by other members via dynos/actual track numbers. Kooks has been around for sometime and has put out some nice products. However, the cel issue needs to be remedied b/f I purchase a set.
I would need more info/documented perf. gains b/f I consider buying anything other header product.

Hows2nd
05-24-2007, 01:55 PM
Why would a tune/reflash be needed to show performance gains from a header/exhaust system install? It is my understanding that you will show some gain from a tune independently of the headers anyways. Thus, likewise you should show a gain from just installing headers independently of a tune. Kooks does just that from information provided by other members via dynos/actual track numbers. Kooks has been around for sometime and has put out some nice products. However, the cel issue needs to be remedied b/f I purchase a set.
I would need more info/documented perf. gains b/f I consider buying anything other header product.

I agree why would a tune/reflash be needed to show performance gains from a header/exhaust system? I did'nt have to do that for the KOOKS set up...now if your talking about optimizing the performance gains I'll give you that. I think that George from KOOKS should chime in here maybe they would be willing to try out this type of cat to see if it fixes the CEL problem.

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 01:57 PM
Why would a tune/reflash be needed to show performance gains from a header/exhaust system install? It is my understanding that you will show some gain from a tune independently of the headers anyways. Thus, likewise you should show a gain from just installing headers independently of a tune. Kooks does just that from information provided by other members via dynos/actual track numbers. Kooks has been around for sometime and has put out some nice products. However, the cel issue needs to be remedied b/f I purchase a set.
I would need more info/documented perf. gains b/f I consider buying anything other header product.


I don't know of a single exhaust system on the market that will perform as it should without a reflash/retune. The larger the difference between the aftermarket system and stock, the larger the gains post tune/flash will be.
What you fail to realize is that I'm the first and only person to have a Stainless Works exhaust at this point; they're just coming to market, right now. Kooks headers have been out for some time, of course there's going to be more documented results, what did you expect?
As for quality of product, Stainless Works has been around for a long time, despite the fact a lot of SRT owners haven't heard of them. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who's seen their work first hand say someone else's is better. Visit the Vette, Mustang, F-body, Caddy, Ford GT, TB SS, etc. sites and sift through some of the comparisons and opinions.

Hows2nd
05-24-2007, 02:03 PM
I don't know of a single exhaust system on the market that will perform as it should without a reflash/retune. The larger the difference between the aftermarket system and stock, the larger the gains post tune/flash will be.
What you fail to realize is that I'm the first and only person to have a Stainless Works exhaust at this point; they're just coming to market, right now. Kooks headers have been out for some time, of course there's going to be more documented results, what did you expect?
As for quality of product, Stainless Works has been around for a long time, despite the fact a lot of SRT owners haven't heard of them. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who's seen their work first hand say someone else's is better. Visit the Vette, Mustang, F-body, Caddy, Ford GT, TB SS, etc. sites and sift through some of the comparisons and opinions.

Just so you know this is not an attack on you, you have to realize that until you have #'s and times to back up your claims we are going to be a little skeptical.....I expect you to be pro SW you are running a free set on your rig. :D

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 02:05 PM
Alright, I just got off the phone with a local shop with a brand new Dyno Jet, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I'm redynoing by Wed. of next week. Nothing new, just the full exhaust with more miles. Unfortunately it will be on a different dyno than the pre exhaust test, but I can't drive 2.5 hrs to retest at this time.
Hopefully this will answer some questions for all of us.
Also, this same shop will be doing my tuning if/when Diablo ever releases a handheld so at least that comparison will be on the same dyno.

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 02:08 PM
Just so you know this is not an attack on you, you have to realize that until you have #'s and times to back up your claims we are going to be a little skeptical.....I expect you to be pro SW you are running a free set on your rig. :D

No hard feelings, like I said, I'd feel the same way. These mods aren't cheap and I'd never want someone to throw their money away (done that quite a few times myself in the past) on something considered unproven.
All I ask is that you give SWorks a fair shake. Hopefully the redyno next week will give us some decent data to work with.
As for them being free, they weren't. Seriously discounted yes, but remember they had my Jeep for 6 weeks as well.

GodfatherSRT8
05-24-2007, 02:09 PM
So GotStroke got his whole set up free. Thats awesome. Damn I want a free setup.

gbusy1906
05-24-2007, 02:16 PM
I am a Ford Mustang Enthusiast. I have owned 5.0s, Cobras, Lightnings, 03 Harley(ran 13s w/headers & other mods). I have never heard of SW. I used Bassani Headers on my 03 and Dynatech on my Harley Truck. Rather than get into a longer debate, please provide some dyno/track numbers. I do understand you only had 6miles on your vehicle. The pcm needs at least 10 miles to adapt. However, documented perf. gains drive demand.
Anyways, your information is greatly appreciated!!!!!

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 02:21 PM
I am a Ford Mustang Enthusiast. I have owned 5.0s, Cobras, Lightnings, 03 Harley(ran 13s w/headers & other mods). I have never heard of SW. I used Bassani Headers on my 03 and Dynatech on my Harley Truck. Rather than get into a longer debate, please provide some dyno/track numbers. I do understand you only had 6miles on your vehicle. The pcm needs at least 10 miles to adapt. However, documented perf. gains drive demand.
Anyways, your information is greatly appreciated!!!!!


No problem, but have you been living under a rock? ;) j/k

I'll get the numbers up as soon as they happen.

Check out their site to see some of the work they've done: www.stainlessworks.net

I'm sure you've heard of these guys:
We produce and have produced private label products for top tuners and builders such as Lingenfelter, Wheel to Wheel, Mallet, Roush, and other companies that specialize in Audi, Porsche, and Harley Davidson motorcycle

We are the only exhaust company to have had our headers and exhaust systems on Corvettes, which have finished in the top five of Car and Drivers One Lap of America, nearly every year for the past five years. We supplied the headers and exhaust to the MTI Built Z07 of Ron Adee, which won the 2003 One Lap. We also built the exhaust systems for Joe and Dale Stubans 2004 Riddler contending street rods, and Mike Hughes beautiful ZR1 powered ’37. Out of the great 8 at Detroit in 2004, Stainless Works built the exhaust systems for 3 of those cars, and our components were used on probably the same number of cars

Our stainless systems have a lifetime warranty-NO ONE ELSE OFFERS THIS!

Hows2nd
05-24-2007, 02:21 PM
No hard feelings, like I said, I'd feel the same way. These mods aren't cheap and I'd never want someone to throw their money away (done that quite a few times myself in the past) on something considered unproven.
All I ask is that you give SWorks a fair shake. Hopefully the redyno next week will give us some decent data to work with.
As for them being free, they weren't. Seriously discounted yes, but remember they had my Jeep for 6 weeks as well.

Believe me If they had my rig for 6 weeks they had better been free or damn close. I'm speaking from prior experience.....with letting a company use my rig for development (I got mine for free). I can't wait to see your numbers but remember the true indicator will be the track especially since it's not going to be the same dyno. I appreciate the fact that you were willing to have a company develop a new system for the JEEP.....oh and as for other 3 inch systems Zoomers uses 3 inch also...Stanko did tests with Zoomers and then with the Corsa and the Corsa made more power across the board (it uses 2.75 inch).

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 02:24 PM
Believe me If they had my rig for 6 weeks they had better been free or damn close. I'm speaking from prior experience.....with letting a company use my rig for development (I got mine for free). I can't wait to see your numbers but remember the true indicator will be the track especially since it's not going to be the same dyno. I appreciate the fact that you were willing to have a company develop a new system for the JEEP.....oh and as for other 3 inch systems Zoomers uses 3 inch also...Stanko did tests with Zoomers and then with the Corsa and the Corsa made more power across the board (it uses 2.75 inch).


I hear you, it was hard going for 6 weeks without mine;)

As for Zoomers I've heard nothing but bad all around (dyno numbers, track tests, added drone, etc.). Doesn't sound like they have a quality product from my understanding. There are also other factors to consider like what resonators and mufflers are used, bends, etc.
Regardless, there are gains to be had on a stock longblock 4.6 4v (a motor that might move 500cfm at peak flow on a good day) going 3" vs. 2.5". I have no reason to suspect that we, especially once the mods start, can't make more power either.

Hows2nd
05-24-2007, 02:30 PM
I hear you, it was hard going for 6 weeks without mine;)

As for Zoomers I've heard nothing but bad all around (dyno numbers, track tests, added drone, etc.). Doesn't sound like they have a quality product from my understanding. There are also other factors to consider like what resonators and mufflers are used, bends, etc.
Regardless, there are gains to be had on a stock longblock 4.6 4v (a motor that might move 500cfm at peak flow on a good day) going 3" vs. 2.5". I have no reason to suspect that we, especially once the mods start, can't make more power either.

Well I was the R&D vehicle for the Zoomers set up (you can see my JEEP on there site doing the test runs) and as you can tell from my signature I run corsa....enough said.

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 02:39 PM
Well I was the R&D vehicle for the Zoomers set up (you can see my JEEP on there site doing the test runs) and as you can tell from my signature I run corsa....enough said.

I'd call that some serious testiment. Thanks for taking one for the team!

cmn1
05-24-2007, 06:35 PM
I am a Ford Mustang Enthusiast. I have owned 5.0s, Cobras, Lightnings, 03 Harley(ran 13s w/headers & other mods). I have never heard of SW. I used Bassani Headers on my 03 and Dynatech on my Harley Truck. Rather than get into a longer debate, please provide some dyno/track numbers. I do understand you only had 6miles on your vehicle. The pcm needs at least 10 miles to adapt. However, documented perf. gains drive demand.
Anyways, your information is greatly appreciated!!!!!

Maybe you are hanging out on the wrong sites. I have never done an exhaust or headers before but I have heard of Stainless Works. www.svtperformance.com has lots of happy customers. I think www.nhtoc.com has even discussed their quality before.

generalconfusion
05-24-2007, 08:14 PM
You guys never listen to me:rolleyes: They worked perfectly for me--like a charm.

Tommy posted that, but I find it very hard to believe that anti-foulers caused his truck to act up. Maybe it was something else.


$20 = No CEL (except the unrelated one I get from the cam :confused: )

They did not work in my truck........and i tried long ones and short ones!

Hows2nd
05-24-2007, 08:17 PM
They did not work in my truck........and i tried long ones and short ones!

DITTO...I've even used the brass one's that stick out about an inch and a half.

generalconfusion
05-24-2007, 08:33 PM
Some thing else.........to chime in. I dynoed before and after the Mopar Corsa and a definite improvement over stock exhaust.

The dyno I had used previously (for the catback test) was down (so I never tested just the Kooks) but over time all other mods done were tested at Harmanmotive. I did not see the 40hp Bevs saw "before and after"....environmental conditions can sway a dyno chart if not corrected and compared.

So on any given day the numbers could be high or lower. In Southern Cal we are in an irrigated desert so we dont have the nice barometric pressures or air they have back east.

What I can say is that with the Kooks/Corsa/B&G Stage 2/Phenolic spacers and GSM ported manifold.........to the wheels this combination has yielded me an honest at the wheels 30hp/20tq+ over the first pull ever done at Harmanmotive. That is documented charted improvements over time.

Corrected
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/steve-srt8-2.jpg

Uncorrected that day at the wheels
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/steve-srt8-1.jpg

For just bolt ons...... headers/catback port matched factory manifold......stock factory cold air intake this is impressive!!!

Inferno SRT8
05-24-2007, 08:47 PM
Stroke let me know when you hit 1500 miles because im ordering your catalytics!

I love when Steve starts busting out charts!!!!!

GotStroke?
05-25-2007, 12:43 AM
Stroke let me know when you hit 1500 miles because im ordering your catalytics!

You got it bro.

I love when Steve starts busting out charts!!!!!

That makes two of us. :D