I'm not exactly sure where to post this message so I will do so here. I have had my Jeep for about two days and although I truly love it the stereo system was a huge let down. With the bass up to about 6 and the volume at 22 the whole car, speakers and all would rattle. When I took the door panel off I realized it wasn't the door that was rattling as much as it was the actual speaker. I replaced the front and back speakers and dynamated the whole car so it doesn't rattle as much but I was wondering if anyone else had run into the same problem as me? The car still rattles a little bit but it is much better than it was. A word to the wise for anyone that wants to replace their speakers in the doors, you must test fit the speakers because if the they are too deep then they will hit the window when it is down.

I was just installing some tint and when I took off the driver's door panel (in order to take off the rubber trim going all around the window, in order to get the tint perfectly to the edge of the glass), with the window down in the door I noticed that the plastic water barrier behind the woofer was actually resting against the window. So I couldn't agree more, there's not much room at all.

Anyway as far as the rattling goes, I found the bass response to be sufficient at +0 ... it's the treble that is especially lacking, and the overall lack of sound quality up front which will probably lead me to change the front speakers when I find correct replacements. More importantly than that, I'll be installing a subwoofer, tapping the line level signal from the amp in the trunk. Now that's when I'll probabaly notice the rattling start!
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I, as well as many others happen to own an iPod. I love my iPod and love my car. The only problem is that as for right now there is no QUALITY way to directly connect my iPod to my Jeep's stereo. I was wondering if anyone has heard anything or knows of any products out there to directly input the iPod through my cars stereo?

If you have the rear DVD Infotainment option....you can use a simple 1/8" to RCA adapter and plug it onto the auxiliary port on the DVD player face. This will create the perfect way to directly connect the iPod to the sound system without using noisy FM modulators. You have to still control song selection, etc. through the iPod itself. Mopar is coming out with an iPod connection to the factory Nav system that will allow control of the iPod through the factory controls (incl steering wheel controls, I hear).

I just got my car yesterday and I love it but I also agree that the stereo is subpar. I am going to be placing a Memphis 10 Sub in the back to boost the Bass. I was wondering if anyones knows if the Stereo has an AUX ports in the back that I can tap into. I have the 6Disc w/NAV. I am thinking about taking the whole Headunit out and replacing it with the Pioneer AVIC w/ Nav traffic instead. The Pioneer gives me a backup camera and the ability to hook up an IPOD. What do you guys think?

Just yesterday I installed some Infinity coaxial speakers in the dash, it actually sounds much better up front. Damn good deal at only $40! All thats left is a custom fiberglass enclosure for a 10" in the trunk and I'm done with the stereo, except maybe for some nice 6.5" midbass drivers for the front doors. A lot of people complain about it but it's not that bad for a factory system.

I don't believe anyone has found a way to feed audio into the nav headunit yet, aside from using an RF modulator. You can feed in video using Nav2Go but no audio. Unless you have the entertainment package, of course.
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CANNABIS COLLECTIVE (http://dispensaries.org/)

I recently had an MTX Thunder 502 amp installed and an Infiniti sub. It was the same setup I had in my old 2000 Grand Cherokee, and it worked fine there. In the SRT, however, the sub stays at the same volume regardless of what the head unit (which is still stock) is set at. The guys who installed it checked it over and said that's just the nature of the radio and I should get a remote bass knob to control the output of the amp.

This doesn't sound right to me. I don't see why the sub volume shouldn't go up and down with the volume on the other speakers. Does it have something to do with the stock amp? Can it be wired differently so it would work correctly?

Anyone have any insight?

I recently had an MTX Thunder 502 amp installed and an Infiniti sub. It was the same setup I had in my old 2000 Grand Cherokee, and it worked fine there. In the SRT, however, the sub stays at the same volume regardless of what the head unit (which is still stock) is set at. The guys who installed it checked it over and said that's just the nature of the radio and I should get a remote bass knob to control the output of the amp.

This doesn't sound right to me. I don't see why the sub volume shouldn't go up and down with the volume on the other speakers. Does it have something to do with the stock amp? Can it be wired differently so it would work correctly?

Anyone have any insight?

That makes no sense. If you turn up the volume on the stereo and if its wired properly the subs should increase in volume as well. I am getting my subs installed on Monday so I will tell you what my stereo guy says

Sounds like they tapped into the wrong wires going to the amp, they got the line level signals going in to the amp. Have them reconnect it to the front door speaker output from the amp and use a line output converter.
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capnfkw, it's defenitely wired wrong.... I have a JLAUDIO 500/1 installed in mine with JL's 12w6 ported enclosure and no problems here...it's not the radio have him go throught it again...

I, as well as many others happen to own an iPod. I love my iPod and love my car. The only problem is that as for right now there is no QUALITY way to directly connect my iPod to my Jeep's stereo. I was wondering if anyone has heard anything or knows of any products out there to directly input the iPod through my cars stereo?

While I can't remember the part number, Mopar makes an iPod installation kit that allows you to directly input your iPod, or any other MP3 player, into your existing system.

While I can't remember the part number, Mopar makes an iPod installation kit that allows you to directly input your iPod, or any other MP3 player, into your existing system.This is indeed true for many Mopar radios, unfortunately I'm certain the GC SRT-8's is not among the radios for which this adapter it is currently offered.

Well, I went back to Best Buy where I had the sub amp installed, and the problem was exactly as idealrides described it. Turns out they didn't even know there was a seprate factory amp. They got it all working properly, but needless to say, I don't recommend Best Buy for car audio installation, at least not the one on Mira Mesa Blvd. in San Diego. Thanks for your help, guys.

You shouldn't generalize one company due to one stores performance. It's unfortunate that you had a bad experiance, and honestly those guys should have known better. They have a plethora of reference material and you shouldn't have had this problem.

Either way, I'm glad to see Best Buy had your problem taken care of, even though you had to go back to them for them to get it right.

2mchpsi, I agree it's not fair to make a generalization, but honestly I've never heard anyone report a good experience with BestBuy doing an install. Just issues ranging from small problems like CapnFKW just experienced, to horror stories like damaged interiors and drilling into fuel tanks. In this particular example, not only did the installer tap into the wrong wires in the first place (hey everyone makes mistakes) but to not even check their own work before giving the car back to the customer?? There's just no excuse for that level of quality.

My only first hand experience with BestBuy was when I starting talking with one of their installers since I was curious, after hearing all the negative feedback. Let's just say he failed my test. He was only about 20 years old, wasn't MECP certified, and gave wrong answers to some very basic questions. I really hate it when people are too proud to say "I don't know" instead they just come up with BS and try to make it sound like they know what they're talking about.

Sorry I don't mean to rant, I just wanted to explain why I have no problem telling people to stay away from their car installs.
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Best Buy - you get what you pay for. Go buy a cheap CD there, but ZERO customer support. Get a stereo installed there and it's pretty cheap - but they spend a half hour working on your car.

Sound Advice is expensive, but they spent 2.5 hours on my truck and it is fantastic sounding - and they provided extra slack on the wireing to the new amp and woofer so I could unlach and move the box around if I needed to.

I just put in a Memphis 10 and a Memphis 200 watt RMS amp in the back and had it mounted and it sounds great. I had them place a Bass Knobb in the front right beside the empty slot by the Power adapter and it looks natural. I am able to adjust the bass with the Factory stereo or with the bass knobb. I currently have it set to -6 and it sounds great. The store I had it installed in tapped off of the component feed from the existing rear speakers and hooked up the subs that way.

I just put in a Memphis 10 and a Memphis 200 watt RMS amp in the back and had it mounted and it sounds great. I had them place a Bass Knobb in the front right beside the empty slot by the Power adapter and it looks natural. I am able to adjust the bass with the Factory stereo or with the bass knobb. I currently have it set to -6 and it sounds great. The store I had it installed in tapped off of the component feed from the existing rear speakers and hooked up the subs that way.

teddy if you can please post pictures of your system. i'd like to especially see how your amp is mounted.
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teddy if you can please post pictures of your system. i'd like to especially see how your amp is mounted.


That goes for all you guys with Stereo mods, please post pics. I would love to see what others are up to.

I am currently gathering components for my upgrades:
- TVandNav2GO stock Nav head unit added video inputs (here).
- Sony SNY-DVX100 10 Disc DVD Changer (here).
- Rockford Fosgate T10001bd amp (here)
- Pioneer Premier TS-SW1241D (2) 12" subs (only 4" deep) 18 to 1000Hz response. (on the way).
- Pioneer ND-BC1 Reverse Rear-View Camera (here).
- Replacement speakers for stock locations, still researching. If anyone has suggestions please post, especially someone that has changed them out already. I hear there is not much room in the doors.

Thanks in advance for your help.

That goes for all you guys with Stereo mods, please post pics. I would love to see what others are up to.

I am currently gathering components for my upgrades:
- TVandNav2GO stock Nav head unit added video inputs (here).
- Sony SNY-DVX100 10 Disc DVD Changer (here).
- Rockford Fosgate T10001bd amp (here)
- Pioneer Premier TS-SW1241D (2) 12" subs (only 4" deep) 18 to 1000Hz response. (on the way).
- Pioneer ND-BC1 Reverse Rear-View Camera (here).
- Replacement speakers for stock locations, still researching. If anyone has suggestions please post, especially someone that has changed them out already. I hear there is not much room in the doors.

Thanks in advance for your help.

I'll post some pics as soon asI get my camera back. I mounted the AMP to the back seat on the left side and the Box is 1 10 sealed and its mounted to the floor with an L bracket right up against the back seat.

I'll post some pics as soon asI get my camera back. I mounted the AMP to the back seat on the left side and the Box is 1 10 sealed and its mounted to the floor with an L bracket right up against the back seat.


Still waiting for those pics, how goes it.
Thanks again

I'll post some pics as soon asI get my camera back. I mounted the AMP to the back seat on the left side and the Box is 1 10 sealed and its mounted to the floor with an L bracket right up against the back seat.


Got that camera back yet, still would like to see those pics.

Thanks.

three weeks... no pictures... I'm going to have to step in here.

http://images16.fotki.com/v316/photos/4/43063/3372672/sub3-vi.jpg

JL Audio has what they call "stealthboxes" which are custom made to perfectly fit a lot of popular vehicles. They have a nice one for the WJ but nothing yet for the WK so I had Rob (from another forum) make the fiberglass mold. He's made a bunch of enclosures for Magnums before but for me he went out of his way to actually rent a Grand Cherokee to make the mold, so when he sent it to me I just had to do a few small mods to make it fit just how I wanted it, covered it with carpet I had laying around from a previous project, and put in a JL 10W6 sub I took out of an old enclosure. Still have to figure out what kind of grill to use, mesh or bars.

Since I'm using it with a mostly stock system (only upgraded the dash speakers to Infinity coaxials) having one small sub like this should be plenty. As much as I like a lot of bass sometimes, having a huge box that takes up cargo space and weighs a ton just doesn't make sense.

Now I have to install my JL 300.2 amp, I've got 4 gauge cables and a David Navone line output converter ready to go, just need some more spare time.
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three weeks... no pictures... I'm going to have to step in here.



Thanks for stepping in, looks great !
I may have to copy that idea maybe times two, one for each side.
Looks like a great compromise between needed bass and vehicle use.

.

If anyone is looking to get a system or speakers for your Jeep, let me know. I can get a great deal on Eclispse, Alpine and Kicker. Let me know what you are looking to get and I will see how much I can sell it to you. Thanks!

If you have the rear DVD Infotainment option....you can use a simple 1/8" to RCA adapter and plug it onto the auxiliary port on the DVD player face. This will create the perfect way to directly connect the iPod to the sound system without using noisy FM modulators. You have to still control song selection, etc. through the iPod itself. Mopar is coming out with an iPod connection to the factory Nav system that will allow control of the iPod through the factory controls (incl steering wheel controls, I hear).

Lol, after reading this I felt so stupid because I didn't realize it as well! And I was using the rear DVD to play music DVD's!!

I own a car stereo shop in nj i can help anybody out on the fourm with parts or equipment. Where doing a monster stereo upgrade in a GC now check out these door panels we made.

While I wouldn't call the stock system subpar or disappointing, it's not great either. What I would say to you guys looking to upgrade, just adding a sub box is only going to give that not so great sound, with a lot of bass. I you really want to improve the sound quality, I'd start by replacing the stock speakers, then the amp, then add the sub box. Now if your a BassHead, I understand as I'm a recovering addict myself, but don't forget to replace the other weak links in the system!

I own a car stereo shop in nj i can help anybody out on the fourm with parts or equipment. Where doing a monster stereo upgrade in a GC now check out these door panels we made.

any progress or pictures you can post? I'd like to see how this is turning out!
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I have upgraded the IP speakers, front door speakers, and added components for the rear door speakers. No change in amp or head unit, but this system sounds fantastic! Tomorrow, I will be adding a compact powered sub and starting a thread. Here, are the previous threads:

Great cheap stereo upgrade... (http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=854)

New Front Door Speakers With Pics (http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1042)

New Rear Door Component Speakers With Pics (http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1175)

idealrides, the midbass units in the front doors will make a big difference in sound quality. WKJeeps lists 3 1/8" as the max depth, but there is about an inch of space between the door metal and the plastic door panel. Therefore you should be able to go even further than the 3 1/8" if you make an offset thick adapter plate. My 6 3/4" units mounted perfectly in the factory holes (2 of the four for the 6x9's; the other two were in the adapter plate).

I'd like to start off saying that I apologize to those who will be offended and think I sound condescending. However, IMHO, and I do mean honest, the Jeep SRT8 BA sound system (I have the navi, but it doesn't matter) - is absolutely awful.

I used to work in a HI END, and I mean $40,000+ speakers, $18,000 speaker cables, $20,000-$30,000 monoblock amps, etc. etc., and have owned the 2002 Q45a with prem sound, 04 FX45 with prem sound, am right now leasing an 06 M45 Sport with prem sound (speakers on seats - WOW), and I must say, of the bunch (there was a 3-series BMW in there too and a 350Z, both with top prem sound options), the Jeep is the worst by far.

Why did I mention the "working in the hi end store" allegory? Simply to say, that at one point, the store carried Boston Acoustics speakers, and they were WONDERFUL. What they put in our Jeeps, is pure crap. I have a few 24-bit, gold Chesky CDs that bring my SRT systems to its knees (forget lossy MP3, FM, or any bulls#!t iPod rip). If you want to hear real nuances of good reproduction of music programme, ditch your geek gear (I'm a geeker myself, so don't feel bad), and put in a reference CD that will make you think twice about your listening pleasure in the SRT8.

To date, the best systems I've heard on cars were my FX45 and now, obviously the M45's 14 speaker, surround sound, DVDa, DVD, THX, AC3, and the dreaded MP3. Even my father's Acura TL has a super sound system, but way too quiet for my tastes.

The most impotrant trait of a sound system is the speaker. Bar-none (given that the rest of the equipment is on-par, or close).

Quick comparison.. An 04 Lex GS400 with the stock Pioneer head unit and another GS400 with the prem ML sound get up. Same cd. The Mark Levinson OF COURSE sounded better. You'd be brain dead to spend 5-10,000 thousand on a sound system and NOT have it sound better. Yet, the stock GS400's owner took the Pioneer PAPER speakers out, and put in DynAdudio drivers (considered the best, if not close to the best TRUE sound reproduction drivers in the world). Guess what. The ML system, in the second test, sounded like a 2-speaker Chevelle compared with the Pioneer amp'd and DYNAUDIO drivers combo. Upon further inspection, the Mark Levinson system (which makes home monoblock amps costing upwards of $10,000 and speakers in an even higher range) put PAPER speakers into the LEX.

Bottom of the base-line is your system as it is now. Change the speakers, with the right spects (remembering that the higher sensityvity, the easier it is to drive them.. I'm talking about 92, 93 decibels at 1 meter at 1 watt of sensitivity. Anything lower, and you're risking sound degredation as well as power requirement insufficiency.

Add a sub, or 2, or 3, or 4, and you'll own one of the best custom sound systems on the market. Don't forget a good cap and good interconnects / speaker wires. I wonder if the next head unit (navi) from mopar will play WMA 10 files. Which let you rip CDs in LOSSLESS mode, meaning, northing is destroyed during the ripping process out of the music on the cd when making the file. Those are key.

You don't need a sound system that costs more than your car. I brought up expensive equipment, because you get what you pay for. Dydnaudio drivers are quite expensive, and I believe you'd have a hard time finding the right fit for our Jeeps. But the speakers in my Jeep HAVE GOT TO GO.

Again, not to brag, but my home theater system, with a 60" HDTV and 7.2 speakers (I have 2 subs from Velodyne, 1200 watts each), the speakers are all di-polar Mirage, with a $5500 Marantz receiver, the sound is pure bliss, from the soft voices of choir singers, violin solos, to full band concertos, and surround movies. The house shakes. I want that in my Jeep. Except for the shaking part. :D

One more comment.. With the road and wind noise at 70+ you will not hear the pure music that you put into your system. So consider it a draw. Your needs versus what you will actually get out of an upgraded system. I mean you're not going to sit in your garage to listen to music..;)

Good luck.

BTW, I will report on my getup when it's done. First, performance mods.

Ginter,
Please don't be offended by what I have to say.

I agree, the Jeep system sucks. But every BMW system does, every MB system does, Lexus systems are better but still suck. I too don't own a music compression device (Ipod, MP3 player...). OK, that not 100% true, I do have satellite radio :)

I was with you until you said BA home speakers sounded wonderful. They are OK and no true audiophile would ever say differently. If you've ever noticed most audiophiles don't find too many speakers, wonderful? Even $100K+ ones??? Being an audiophile and knowing what to listen for is both a blessing and a curse...more curse really. It's hard never having a system that is good enough, it's hard being offended by every OEM car system you hear, it's hard being at friends house and trying to act like you are enjoying his crappy system, it's hard being a audiophile and I don't recommend it, it's hard loving rock and alternative music when 99% is recorded terribly. What I recommend to anyone is not to become a true audiophile or aspire to be one but simpler and more pleasing...listen to alot of equipment and buy what sounds good to you, not what you told is the best or sold on.

I do run DynAudio speaker in my non-OEM car systems and I do think it's about as good as off the shelf speakers get for the car, but they still have "issues". The trick is trying to correct the issues and this seems to getting within reach as correction technology progresses. I spent alot of time at CES this past January trying to convince one particular company that has adapted a correction piece to the car that it is marketable even at it's unbeleivably high price (I would buy it and I know alot of people that would). The problem at CES 2006 was the demo car with said equipment was a static display (it didn't work but supposedly did before it shipped to the show). I will talk these people again in January at CES (if they show up) and hopefully they will show a working demo at a lower cost. My best guess is that we are still 5 years out on viable correction for the car (it's already available for home 2-ch use). There are issues with using this technology but most of these have to do with how to implement it where the end user can tweak it for their speaker placement, room, how to take measurements (I'm over simplifying here)...but I do see a self setting, self correcting system in the not so distant future and one really cool thing about car is that the speaker placement relative to listeners doesn't change so that makes it easier then attempting to do this in a room.

My point is, don't try to be an audiophile...try to find things you like, music should be emotionally involving to you as an individual, it should make you tap your foot, want to dance, etc. It should not make you cringe, it should not hurt your ears, it should not give you a headache at ANY listening levels that are fairly safe (120db is not safe), etc. My Dyn system in my truck doesn't even at dangerous levels, it was better in my M3 but we spent alot more time perfecting that one and it was the best car system I've ever heard, period. It was an improved system copied from the 95 M3 that 1st place in SQ at every IASCA event it was entered in. Did I love it, NO!!! (I'm an audiophile, it's not possible to love anything that is not an absolute perfect reproduction of the original). It is a curse...run away as fast as can :) I just hope the techology advances faster then my hearing gets worse.

Let me apologize for my ranting here. It's all true but I was tired and had been drinking when I wrote all that. I'm not editting it b/c I think it might be an interesting read for some.

The point is..."enjoy the music". It's something I have a hard time doing since I'm so picky.

It's great to know there are others out there with the same "disease" as I have. And with SRT8's too. Its like performance in both cars and music. And yes, I have the home theater system too.

GINTER, I went into this upgrade with the idea of just seeing how far a speaker upgrade would get me. After reading your post, I feel a little better about how much I spent on the speakers.

It ironic that you mention the factory system in the FX45, because my previous ride was an FX45 with the tech package. In my opinion, the Jeep with the upgrade I have done sounds better than the 45. This is not a knock on the Infiniti stereo, just a validation of your point.

Factory speakers in these systems (Jeep, Infiniti, Lexus, or any car manufacturer) probably cost the manufacturer about $5 a pair. And this is rightly so. The average customer probably could not tell the difference between them and a better alternative. A lot of people are more worried more about the price of the car than the stereo and the manufacturer has to make a profit. My point is that I think 90% of the people that have complained about this system would be completely happy with it after they have upgraded the speakers.

lincoln, you make a good point - one that all of us need to be aware of. I am pretty happy with my system now as it stands and want to go with it. But I would never say that I am completely done...

Again, not to brag, but my home theater system, with a 60" HDTV and 7.2 speakers (I have 2 subs from Velodyne, 1200 watts each), the speakers are all di-polar Mirage, with a $5500 Marantz receiver, the sound is pure bliss, from the soft voices of choir singers, violin solos, to full band concertos, and surround movies. The house shakes. I want that in my Jeep. Except for the shaking part. :D


Thanks for all the info. Just some comments: There are many level of audiophiles in the world. A high end audiophile does not use Marantz and Velodyne. In fact, they would not even have a sub in their system for music. They might have a sub for home theater but your thread is music related. The surround system would never be used for music reproduction in a home environment. Also, a high end audiophile does not mention "watts" when referring to their system. The amount of watts you have does not necessarily mean you can produce high quality results and is only one small factor. Therefore, it is typically is not mentioned by itself. Last, I think you meant to say bi-polar, not di-polar. Good luck.

Thanks for all the info. Just some comments: There are many level of audiophiles in the world. A high end audiophile does not use Marantz and Velodyne. In fact, they would not even have a sub in their system for music. They might have a sub for home theater but your thread is music related. The surround system would never be used for music reproduction in a home environment. Also, a high end audiophile does not mention "watts" when referring to their system. The amount of watts you have does not necessarily mean you can produce high quality results and is only one small factor. Therefore, it is typically is not mentioned by itself. Last, I think you meant to say bi-polar, not di-polar. Good luck.

I never claimed to be an audiophile. Nowhere in my message will you see that word. Technology changes way too quickly to stay on top, with ever-so increasing prices and the number of channels.

The speakers are di-polar. NOT bi-polar. Definitive Technology uses bi-polar designs. My Mirage's are not. And I do use an ALL-IN-ONE huge receiver, with multiple HDTV inputs (component and HDMI) instead of 8-9 or 10 or more components to truly reproduce the versatility of this receiver. It has at least 10 digital audio inputs, which I use from my (expanded) 500 GB HD cable box tuner, a small, self-built media pc, a ROKU ethernet slim video processor, two DVD players, and an SACD player (which I used optical audio out on most of the units, 75 ohm coaxial on some). The receiver has served me well and I am proud to say that I have a "receiver" (oooooh, not an audiophile component) in my theater rig. And yes, I have TWO Velodyne subs (the 1200 watt figure was more machismo than a reference to the quality of the units) yet they are absolutely crucial to my theater system. I can't imagine watching a fairly high-decibel-range movie with explosions and or low bass (such as Koyaanisquaatsi) without them. And unless you get into the $10,000+ price of pair of hi-end audiophile speakers that do not require subwoofers, you NEED them, if your requirements meet or are close to that of mine. Def Tech, with their built-in subs are not hi-end audiophile, and ironically have subs built-in.

A traditional audiophile, with a moderate budget, would purchase a pair of good speakers (Stereophile B or C list), good speaker cables that won't break a camel's back, decent interconnects, and a CD player. Then two amps and a pre-amp with (at most 5 connections). Maybe even a turntable. No huge TV, no extra computers or video processors, no subs, etc.. He'd tune his room with foam or other silencers, take 2-3 months to find the perfect "sweet spot" and enjoy the music he likes. Unfortunately, I'm a working man, get home late, my kid uses my rig 99% of the time, the wife the other 1%, and I do not fit in the audiophile category, YET, I want good sound. I am thoroughly satisfied with my "receiver and Velodyne" setup. When watching movies at close to -1 or 0 decibel levels, sometimes +1 or 2, I hear nothing but pure joy. All bands flat. No bass or trebble tuning. And the 60 incher TV provides more kick-ass experience.

Don't get me wrong. I could have bought a Meridian system, that cost $100,000+ or a McIntosh system in the same price rance. Or Classe. Kimber Kable (Black Pearl?, KCTG?), Pass Audio Labs, Watt/Puppy, Mark Levinson, maybe even the ridiculously priced Cello equipment (started by Mark Levinson after he sold his company). But I have a life to balance and the cost of that sytem wouldn't even closely justify the reward.

Apropo watts, YES it does matter. The Pass Aleph 0 amps, hailed as the first tube-sounding-like class "A" amps, were rated at 35 watts each. Try to drive B&W's 800 reference series (carbon fiber mids with diamond tweeters) with those. Or even 801's. Can, to a low decibel level. But your experience would be Severley LIMITED. I've tried in a sound room, live, trust me. They sounded amazing, but ran out of juice. Thus Pass now makes 1000+ watt monoblock amps to bring out the dynamic range of real, top of the line, audiophile speakers. McIntosh makes a 4000 watt monoblock amp, to drive their insanely huge tower speakers (which include a non powered huge sub, or a separate powered sub).

My point is: to each his own.

This wasn't a retort. Simply a justification to your suggesion that an audiophile wouldn't put a receiver (god no) into a rig with Velodyne's. Again, I'm not an audiophile. I don't have the moolah to blow on a 6-digit or even 7-digit video/audio system. I wish I did. Give me the numbers to a 300+ mill powerball drawing and I'll build an "audiophile" system that would satisfy anyone.

No hard feelings. Everyone has their needs versus preferences versus time and availability to enjoy anything in life.

I am definitely not in the category of the top dollar system as you guys describe, but I am not at the bottom either. I guess I'm at one of those levels in the middle.

I dropped my subscription to Stereophile about 5 years ago. I really don't buy into a lot of the ideas in the top end philosophy and it sounds like you both know them. Here are a few examples:

Two Speakers Most purists want only a two speaker system or maybe a multiple speaker system that really puts the sound up front. My preference to be surrounded by the sound (6.3) and feel like I am in the middle of it.

No Sub I like to hear the sub frequencies in the music at the levels that achieve a balanced sound. I believe there are subs (at a cost) with sufficient pitch definition and speed that enhance music.

Tube or Analog Equipment My amps are all solid state; the connections to source equipment all digital, etc.

Separate Systems I have one system that I use for both home theater and music.

I know all the equipment and the type of systems that you guys describe as high end audiophile. But like GINTER said,

YET, I want good sound. I am thoroughly satisfied with my "receiver and Velodyne" setup. When watching movies at close to -1 or 0 decibel levels, sometimes +1 or 2, I hear nothing but pure joy.

Two Points
1) He thinks his system sounds great (and I'll bet it does) and he is happy with it (like me with mine).
2) With today's equipment, I think you can some awfully good sound without going high end audiophile.

Thanks again, it is always good to know there are other music and theater guys like me.