Bill's 426 stroker (sans supercharger) dyno results [Archive] - Cherokee SRT8 Forum

: Bill's 426 stroker (sans supercharger) dyno results


BuilderBill
05-03-2007, 04:31 PM
The 426 stroker (NO supercharger) was fired up yesterday.
Note that this currently has a STOCK cam and injectors and 9.0 compression ratio.
The engine is in transit to ASM to be torn down to install the new crank tone wheel on the crankshaft for the programmable electronics. I may play a little with camshafts on the ASM dyno since I will be able to adjust idle speed and A/F mixture at all RPM ranges.I believe that I am in the 10 psi supercharger range with the 9.0 compression pistons.
Bill

ge2
05-03-2007, 04:35 PM
About the only words I understood from that was 'fired up yesterday'. Aside from that I don't understand a lick..... but I'm sure it means really cool stuff :)

generalconfusion
05-03-2007, 05:06 PM
The 426 stroker (NO supercharger) was fired up yesterday.
Note that this currently has a STOCK cam and injectors and 9.0 compression ratio.
The engine is in transit to ASM to be torn down to install the new crank tone wheel on the crankshaft for the programmable electronics. I may play a little with camshafts on the ASM dyno since I will be able to adjust idle speed and A/F mixture at all RPM ranges.I believe that I am in the 10 psi supercharger range with the 9.0 compression pistons.
Bill


WOW nice crank numbers!!!!!!!.......with those kind of numbers why even supercharge it???

MatFab
05-03-2007, 05:09 PM
WOW nice crank numbers!!!!!!!.......with those kind of numbers why even supercharge it???

theres never enough power...

Blown7
05-03-2007, 05:11 PM
Mind if I ask a few questions?
What is the dynamic compression ratio?
I know static is 9-1
What octaine fuel are you going to run?
With a static compression ratio of 9-1 your dynamic should hopefully around 8-1 or less because if all stays the same your final compression ratio with 10 LBS of boost and 9-1 dynamic will be around 15-1. Big octaine numbers.
What are you running for a quench height?
Nice run of torque out running HP!

I'm planning on doing the same just with a Whipple screw.


jeff

BuilderBill
05-03-2007, 05:25 PM
WOW nice crank numbers!!!!!!!.......with those kind of numbers why even supercharge it???
General,
I am so tempted to have the engine shipped to me as soon as the electronics (crank install) are completed. :confused::confused:Yes, with the attached sheet, it sure makes a lot of usable power. With the stock 6.1 cam it should idle perfectly. It appears to be pretty decent on torque.
Bill

BuilderBill
05-03-2007, 05:31 PM
Mind if I ask a few questions?
What is the dynamic compression ratio?
I know static is 9-1
What octaine fuel are you going to run?
With a static compression ratio of 9-1 your dynamic should hopefully around 8-1 or less because if all stays the same your final compression ratio with 10 LBS of boost and 9-1 dynamic will be around 15-1. Big octaine numbers.
What are you running for a quench height?
Nice run of torque out running HP!

I'm planning on doing the same just with a Whipple screw.


jeff
Jeff,
I am sorry as he**. I am going to have to refer the questions to GE2:eek:

Fuel = 93 octane, same as now. Hmmm, don't like to here 15-1 compression.
Torque numbers look great as is.
All other questions are WAY over my head...I will have answers though as I proceed along. After all, before I started this project, I couldn't even spell stroker!

Hey guys...what do you think about staying with the stock cam??
Bill

Blown7
05-03-2007, 05:43 PM
Hey guys...what do you think about staying with the stock cam??
Bill

Usually believe it or not stock cams are a great choice if it's not a all out drag machine.


Jeff

slow91
05-03-2007, 06:02 PM
Hey guys...what do you think about staying with the stock cam??
Bill

I for one am a believer in the smooth response and idle that a stock camshaft gives. That being said, it is basically going to be a decision you will need to make jointly with your engine builder. If you have limited knowledge on the subject, he should be able to explain the differences.

Also another another couple of points to factor in is (1) Are you definately going the FI route whether it be SC or turbo and (2) What are your goals?? i.e. Daily-driver boulevard brawler......or weekend track vehicle with consistent 1/4-mile times.

It may just be me, but those are my thoughts on the matter. I'm sure others will have some input as well. GL.

Inferno SRT8
05-03-2007, 06:05 PM
I agree with Steve, Bill why supercharge it with those kind of numbers. But I do understand if you do :D

Insane numbers though!

If you can tune it do the cam what the hell, go for it!

FastSRT8GC
05-03-2007, 08:41 PM
Congrats Bill, at least your making better progress then I am!!

For sure you will be the first to destroy the drivetrain! Cant wait to see it run and hear it!!

BuilderBill
05-03-2007, 09:31 PM
Congrats Bill, at least your making better progress then I am!!

For sure you will be the first to destroy the drivetrain! Cant wait to see it run and hear it!! Fast,
Since NO one is making much driveline progress, I may be on my own there also. I am about ready to search SRT8 JGC and buy a complete rear end from a "bone yard" . From there I believe I can pull it apart and figure out how to make it perform up to the power we will be producing.

Damn, I could use some help on this! At this rate I will have more money under the hood and body that GE2 has on the interior.http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif
Bill

borgmann
05-04-2007, 01:29 AM
hi bill..... let ask the dude here in dubai what he has done to hold the 426 SC he has..... it has over 700 hp. will call one the days and ask him. how is that. but dont think i has done mush.

andreas

Blown7
05-04-2007, 03:53 AM
[QUOTE=BuilderBill]Fast,
Since NO one is making much driveline progress, I may be on my own there also. I am about ready to search SRT8 JGC and buy a complete rear end from a "bone yard" . From there I believe I can pull it apart and figure out how to make it perform up to the power we will be producing.
/QUOTE]

Your going to be in an area where no one has been yet, the big Dana 44 that is in the GC has no aftermarket support so if you want to toughen it up your going to go custom aftermarket like Moser Axle or Superior etc.

Although for the ultimate would be to talk to Jack at CTM for custom everything (300M series chromoly, cryrogenically treated.)

I myself have tought about it a little and think the rear may hold pretty well if it's kept open and a locker isn't installed (not that a locker has been developed yet) although the JK locker should work. Thats about all that is available yet. The 8.9 inch ring gear is almost the same diameter as a Dana 60and a little under a Ford 9 inch.

So if the rear is your biggest concern you may have to custom build a Dana 60 or a Ford 9 inch.
Or another way would be to install a true Dana 44 up front and bias more power to the front end.

In my old setup in the CJ I had 700 HP on a 50/50 split in full time Four Wheel drive and I could spin all four 35 inch tall tires easy, never had a problem but the Dana 44's where all full float axles. And I never rock crawled it.


Jeff

Mango
05-04-2007, 05:06 AM
I'm learning so much from this thread!! Keep it up guys, I love how insane all of you are. Haha!

I agree with other statements, leave that baby all motor and put the money into the driveline.

Blown7
05-04-2007, 05:37 AM
BTW Bill,
What did the engine builder use for a ECU to control the engine on the dyno?


Jeff

BuilderBill
05-04-2007, 05:54 AM
BTW Bill,
What did the engine builder use for a ECU to control the engine on the dyno?


Jeff FAST was used to run the engine on the dyno.
The engine is on its way to ASM now to have the crank pulled out and a new tone wheel installed. This and new sensors will allow a totally programmable piggyback module plugged into the existing PCM. A lot of screwing around, but I really want totally programmable electronics...timing, A/F map etc.etc.
Bill

generalconfusion
05-04-2007, 11:05 AM
General,
I am so tempted to have the engine shipped to me as soon as the electronics (crank install) are completed. :confused::confused:Yes, with the attached sheet, it sure makes a lot of usable power. With the stock 6.1 cam it should idle perfectly. It appears to be pretty decent on torque.
Bill

I have been tempted to stroke my motor to a 6.4 or a 426.......doing exactly what you have done......stock compression with stock cam and the stock ECU should work beautifully!

Keep us informed!

BuilderBill
05-04-2007, 11:31 AM
I have been tempted to stroke my motor to a 6.4 or a 426.......doing exactly what you have done......stock compression with stock cam and the stock ECU should work beautifully!

Keep us informed!
The engine builder said I lost 40 hp with the 9:1 compression vs. stock compression. Stock cam keeps the comb VERY drivable too. Not a bad way to go. You could have a low rpm (he recommended 6000 or so shift..stock TCM would work) extremely reliable 555 hp engine.
Bill

Crank
05-04-2007, 11:43 AM
so since everything is at stock and all will this effect your emissions.

GotStroke?
05-04-2007, 12:00 PM
Just got back to town and saw your results Bill, congrats!

live4skins
05-04-2007, 12:10 PM
Bill man...that is just plain rediculous! So getting the stock cam actually helps with better power in the 426? Kinda confused there. Also what would the power to the wheels be Bill? Since that motor is being measured at the crank right?

Great job being the first to get the motor installed and I can't wait to see the final results ;)

BuilderBill
05-04-2007, 12:21 PM
Bill man...that is just plain rediculous! So getting the stock cam actually helps with better power in the 426? Kinda confused there. Also what would the power to the wheels be Bill? Since that motor is being measured at the crank right?

Great job being the first to get the motor installed and I can't wait to see the final results ;)
Live..
No I don't think the stock cam makes MORE power in a stroker. The stock cam keeps it very street able and if you can get 555 hp crank at 5500rpm and not worry about idle or driving stalling etc. that would be a pretty nice combo. I do not know the awd hp. My stocker (CAI & Mopar catback, 170*) produced 375 awd hp from the advertised 420 crank hp.

An as far as getting the motor installed, I am far away from that day.http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif A lot of work with the electronics and supercharger before an install.
Bill

Blown-WK
05-04-2007, 01:13 PM
Nice work. The motor will put down right around 470 to the wheels how it is now. I definitely would recommend having a blower specific cam installed while its apart to further enhance the powerband. The stock cam is really falling short up top where the tq is dropping significantly. A good blower cam will hardly drop at redline. Blowers hate valve overlap so try to stay away from that as much as possible.

El Jefe
05-04-2007, 01:48 PM
519 and 549??? Holy crap....

BuilderBill
05-04-2007, 02:30 PM
Nice work. The motor will put down right around 470 to the wheels how it is now. I definitely would recommend having a blower specific cam installed while its apart to further enhance the powerband. The stock cam is really falling short up top where the tq is dropping significantly. A good blower cam will hardly drop at redline. Blowers hate valve overlap so try to stay away from that as much as possible.
Any company that you would recommend for the blower cam?? Specs?
Certainly appreciate ALL your info on this forum.:)
Bill

Blown7
05-04-2007, 02:33 PM
A good blower cam will hardly drop at redline.

Depends on the cam grind.
If he uses the stock cam he'll have good low end driveability.
Hell with a stock cam at a redline of 6K the engine should be making around 650- 700 CHP with 8 PSI boost.

Bill will be in the somewhat envious "What's the next weakest link gonna break next" catagory.

I guess the next obvious question is this vehicle gonna be a DD?


Jeff

BuilderBill
05-04-2007, 02:40 PM
Bill will be in the somewhat envious "What's the next weakest link gonna break next" catagory.


Jeff
Thanks for the cam thoughts guys, I thought I was already there on the cam. So close....I feel I can go a little more certainly as Dave has just released the '07 PCM stage II.

Already have a front and rear axle assy headed to Charlotte. I want to figure the weak link out before I am stranded somewhere (like Rockingham drag strip 2 hours away).

Yes it will still be DD, trying not to get too crazy and non-drivable.
Bill

Blown7
05-04-2007, 03:09 PM
At around 700 HP it starts not getting fun being a DD.
My thoughts on that are high idle in the 800-1000 RPM range, stoplights you start dreading, fuel consumption goes out the window, around 4-8 MPG. You have to add fuel to keep the engine cool (run rich). Forget power brakes you won't have enough vacuum. Then hydroboost is the way to go, add between 500-1000 dollars to modify the brake system.

Power and bragging rights are fantastic,I know I can brag that my 401 can make almost 1200 HP on the juice but that just won't work on the street.
My clan of guys tell me 700 Hp at 5000 RPM off the
juice will make me pee my pants ( and I can hold my urine well).

Jeff

GotStroke?
05-04-2007, 09:35 PM
Nice work. The motor will put down right around 470 to the wheels how it is now. I definitely would recommend having a blower specific cam installed while its apart to further enhance the powerband. The stock cam is really falling short up top where the tq is dropping significantly. A good blower cam will hardly drop at redline. Blowers hate valve overlap so try to stay away from that as much as possible.


You think it will only lose 49HP going from an engine dyno to/through an automatic trans, transfer case, two diffs, and 20" wheels with EMT tires?

I'd bet it would net more around 420-440awhp SAE corrected, obviously cam and compression limited.

Blown-WK
05-05-2007, 12:10 AM
You think it will only lose 49HP going from an engine dyno to/through an automatic trans, transfer case, two diffs, and 20" wheels with EMT tires?

I'd bet it would net more around 420-440awhp SAE corrected, obviously cam and compression limited.
Yes you are correct. I read Bills post above mine that said 555hp and was working from that number. My eyes arent too great and I couldnt read the original sheet he posted.

srt8 for me
05-05-2007, 02:29 PM
good work bill how is building your engine and whats the price ?