PCV Oil Seperator [Archive] - Cherokee SRT8 Forum

: PCV Oil Seperator


generalconfusion
04-27-2007, 09:27 AM
I just had a shop fabricate me a oil catch can or seperator between the PCV valve and the throttle body. The next few days to weeks will reveal how well it works. The trick is to fit it close and in the spot between them.

The reason I did this was all the oil found in the intake and throttle body area. This oil was on the head and along the intake. Oil in the intake track will cause detonation and dilute the intake charge causing substantial power loss.

Also I know I had it and others as well.........the blue puff of smoke at start up, that isnt our motors its the heavy oil being sucked into your manifold! Open the valve body and drag a rod or probe along the bottom and you will get oil dredge.

Anyway this problem is common and a not talked about problem until the intake valve is gummed up and the entire intake tract is saturated.

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/catchcan/catchcan.php
http://www.accmachtech.com/pcvcatchcans.htm
http://www.lnsauto.com/articles/ford_truck_performance_20051001/ford_truck_performance_20051001_article.shtml

HoustonSRT-8
04-27-2007, 09:55 AM
The oil catch-can is a very popular mod on the Harley F-150s & Lightnings.

cobrakid
04-27-2007, 10:37 AM
....I didn't realize this would be a problem, on a "non-blown" vehicle.

I had them on my Lightnings & Cobra.....

Go to Walmart, buy an air compressor (Campbell-Hausfield) seperator and
fittings, that is what I did. I also like the idea of a clear one.

thanks for the tip.

DavesSRT8
04-27-2007, 11:57 AM
here's what alot of Lightning, Harley, Corvette and LSx motors run:

http://www.midwestpd.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=784&osCsid=0ba4eba0f919852c4fdb15b019fb320e


ran one for over a year and not a drop of oil in my intake. (Lightning)

have one on order now.

Dave
2007JGCSRT8

generalconfusion
04-27-2007, 03:03 PM
here's what alot of Lightning, Harley, Corvette and LSx motors run:

http://www.midwestpd.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=784&osCsid=0ba4eba0f919852c4fdb15b019fb320e


ran one for over a year and not a drop of oil in my intake. (Lightning)

have one on order now.

Dave
2007JGCSRT8

I just ordered one of these to take a look. The point is our manifolds are drenched in oil!!!! This will cause detonation and loss of power.

SRedrockT8
04-27-2007, 04:04 PM
I just ordered one of these to take a look. The point is our manifolds are drenched in oil!!!! This will cause detonation and loss of power.

i hope they have enough of them because i ordered one about an hour ago. :D


on a side note, i had recently had my oil changed (1st one) at my dealership. i checked the oil level the next day cold & it was spot on. a week or so later i was looking inside my stock air cleaner box just poking around and i noticed engine oil puddles in the square pockets at the bottom, inside the box. the clean oil was coming from the crankcase breather vent tube right below the filter. it had even washed off some of the red oil from my K&N flat panel filter as it was being sucked up through. i wiped up as much oil as i could with paper towels (took about 8 paper towels) but i couldnt get all of it out of the molded squares.

i removed the vent tube completely & added a breather filter (where the fitting comes out of the oil filler tube) that i picked up from my local auto parts store. i've been running the breather filter for about a week now & no more oil in my air cleaner box & it's running fine.

now i dont know if it was actually sucking oil through the breather tube while the engine was running or the oil may have gotten down the tube when the oil was being filled during the oil change, but in any event no more oil is getting into my air cleaner.

DavesSRT8
04-27-2007, 04:34 PM
Be VERY careful when running a breather on the crankcase. It can throw off the air/fuel big time. On Lightnings, they require a custom tune (reflash) of the PCM to accomodate the change - you MAY lean out, so watch your A/F.

The catch cans I posted used to be made by AMW, but now the midwest PD folks took over. They probably are on backorder.

Inside the catch can, you will find something that looks like stainless steel steel wool. Works very well, but you will have to make your own mounting bracket. I used pretty heavy gage steel to make mine, as these are pretty hefty and will wobble around if not mounted correctly.

the LSx motor guys swear by these, as do Lightning/Harley folks. The nice thing is you just put a baggie under the pet**** and drain it every once in a while.

Even if on backorder, they are worth the wait. VERY well made.

Dave

Inferno SRT8
04-27-2007, 04:47 PM
Steve great find!

When I removed my manifold for the spacer install and turned it upside down it was dry so I was pretty happy about that. Looked inside all ok. No oil.

Hows2nd
04-27-2007, 07:05 PM
Be VERY careful when running a breather on the crankcase. It can throw off the air/fuel big time. On Lightnings, they require a custom tune (reflash) of the PCM to accomodate the change - you MAY lean out, so watch your A/F.

The catch cans I posted used to be made by AMW, but now the midwest PD folks took over. They probably are on backorder.

Inside the catch can, you will find something that looks like stainless steel steel wool. Works very well, but you will have to make your own mounting bracket. I used pretty heavy gage steel to make mine, as these are pretty hefty and will wobble around if not mounted correctly.

the LSx motor guys swear by these, as do Lightning/Harley folks. The nice thing is you just put a baggie under the pet**** and drain it every once in a while.

Even if on backorder, they are worth the wait. VERY well made.

Dave

They are still made by AMW, I contacted them directly today to see if I could order through them (texas). They directed me to Midwest and told me the turned over the sales portion to them but they still make them.
http://www.accmachtech.com/pcvcatchcans.htm

SRT8
04-27-2007, 10:33 PM
I'll be checking my TB for oil residue soon. Those of you that ordered the catch can let us know how you like it(if it works well)?

generalconfusion
04-27-2007, 11:44 PM
When I internet ordered mine today they were in stock. The one I fabbed sits.....I mean literally sits between the PCV and throttle body.....I cut the stock hose in half and it seems to fit nicely. Of course this is a prototype and the AMW catch can will require some work but may fit the same way. I''ll need to find some prebent/prefabbed hose.

Inferno SRT8
04-28-2007, 12:24 AM
They are still made by AMW, I contacted them directly today to see if I could order through them (texas). They directed me to Midwest and told me the turned over the sales portion to them but they still make them.
http://www.accmachtech.com/pcvcatchcans.htm


How much? I think I may get a red one.

SRedrockT8
04-28-2007, 04:56 PM
Be VERY careful when running a breather on the crankcase. It can throw off the air/fuel big time. On Lightnings, they require a custom tune (reflash) of the PCM to accomodate the change - you MAY lean out, so watch your A/F.


i'm trying to wrap my head around how removing the tube & replacing it with a breather will affect the A/F ratio.:confused:

HoustonSRT-8
04-28-2007, 05:25 PM
i'm trying to wrap my head around how removing the tube & replacing it with a breather will affect the A/F ratio.:confused:
Air is drawn into the crankcase, blows down past the valves, moves through the combustion chamber and flows across the O2 sensors. The O2 sensors read the air that the Mass Air Flow sensor did not read and gives off bad readings.

SRedrockT8
04-28-2007, 08:59 PM
Air is drawn into the crankcase, blows down past the valves, moves through the combustion chamber and flows across the O2 sensors. The O2 sensors read the air that the Mass Air Flow sensor did not read and gives off bad readings.


it's my understanding that the crankcase needs to be vented so pressure doesnt build up in the cankcase. the breather tube leads from the oil filler tube to the air cleaner and a small amount of vacuum is applied to the breather tube from the air cleaner box to suck crankcase vapors into the intake tract.

isn't this is done for emissions reasons (as small as they may be) to burn blow-by or crankcase vapors through the intake instead of releasing the small amount of vapors into the atmosphere?

unless i'm totally wrong, eliminating those crankcase vapors from the air box by adding a crankcase filter shouldn't affect the air/fuel ratio.

am i way off base here? :confused:

HoustonSRT-8
04-28-2007, 10:19 PM
it's my understanding that the crankcase needs to be vented so pressure doesnt build up in the cankcase. the breather tube leads from the oil filler tube to the air cleaner and a small amount of vacuum is applied to the breather tube from the air cleaner box to suck crankcase vapors into the intake tract.

isn't this is done for emissions reasons (as small as they may be) to burn blow-by or crankcase vapors through the intake instead of releasing the small amount of vapors into the atmosphere?

unless i'm totally wrong, eliminating those crankcase vapors from the air box by adding a crankcase filter shouldn't affect the air/fuel ratio.

am i way off base here? :confused:
Yes, you missed that the air being routed back into the intake tract via the stock set-up has already been measured by the Mass Air Flow sensor. This metered air is routed back into the intake tract behind the MAF sensor.

A breather cap, on the other hand, is drawing unmetered air.

ABeasst
04-28-2007, 10:26 PM
all catch-can setups arent vented to the atmosphere and therefore the amount of air does not change it just helps remove the oil.

SRedrockT8
04-28-2007, 11:12 PM
Yes, you missed that the air being routed back into the intake tract via the stock set-up has already been measured by the Mass Air Flow sensor. This metered air is routed back into the intake tract behind the MAF sensor.

A breather cap, on the other hand, is drawing unmetered air.


maybe we're talkling apout 2 different things.

in the pic below, i removed the breather tube (circled in yellow) completely and put a breather filter on it. this "air" is before the A/F module (circled in green), not after.

the pcv (circled in red) is after the a/f module and is where i'll be adding the oil seperator.

http://photos.imageevent.com/luv4low/miscpics/websize/jeepvalvecoversilversm.jpg

i added a breather like in the pic below from ASM.

http://photos.imageevent.com/luv4low/miscpics/websize/100_0592.jpg

Derwood98
04-28-2007, 11:14 PM
That thing is bad ass. Where did you get the super?

generalconfusion
04-29-2007, 01:09 AM
Air is drawn into the crankcase, blows down past the valves, moves through the combustion chamber and flows across the O2 sensors. The O2 sensors read the air that the Mass Air Flow sensor did not read and gives off bad readings.


NO WAY!!!:eek: Not even close.

generalconfusion
04-29-2007, 01:10 AM
all catch-can setups arent vented to the atmosphere and therefore the amount of air does not change it just helps remove the oil.

VAcuum.........not air!

DavesSRT8
04-29-2007, 07:16 AM
As I said, just a warning after needing reflash of my PCM in my Lightning when adding breather - the A/F probably will be affected (it will go lean). you may want to keep an eye on this, as unmetered air (these are basically closed systems) can cause issues. What most Lightning reflash tuners do is fatten up the A/F when a client adds a breather. Remember, you may get some oil smells also, from the air conditioning, when you turn it on, so do not be alarmed. . The current setup with the hose (stock) is measuring air at a different point in the system. Some folks swear their drivability is not affected, etc. but I have seen the effects on the dyno and on my A/F gage, located in a bung between the front and rear O2 sensor (downstream of 1st sensor in system) and from the tailpipe sniffer type of A/F measurements. I, for one, choose to be safe, as I know firsthand what lean A/F's do to piston tops. And hopefully, you do NOT run nitrous on top of this setup.

The catch can is not an issue, and if hooked up correctly (it too is just part of a closed system) can help quite a bit in keeping the intake dry. Just make sure you carefully follow the instructions that come with the AMW catch can, as i have seen about 1 in 3 people hook it up backwards, allowing some oil into the intake tract

Dave
2007 JGCSRT8

generalconfusion
04-29-2007, 11:33 AM
As I said, just a warning after needing reflash of my PCM in my Lightning when adding breather - the A/F probably will be affected (it will go lean). you may want to keep an eye on this, as unmetered air (these are basically closed systems) can cause issues. What most Lightning reflash tuners do is fatten up the A/F when a client adds a breather. Remember, you may get some oil smells also, from the air conditioning, when you turn it on, so do not be alarmed. . The current setup with the hose (stock) is measuring air at a different point in the system. Some folks swear their drivability is not affected, etc. but I have seen the effects on the dyno and on my A/F gage, located in a bung between the front and rear O2 sensor (downstream of 1st sensor in system) and from the tailpipe sniffer type of A/F measurements. I, for one, choose to be safe, as I know firsthand what lean A/F's do to piston tops. And hopefully, you do NOT run nitrous on top of this setup.

The catch can is not an issue, and if hooked up correctly (it too is just part of a closed system) can help quite a bit in keeping the intake dry. Just make sure you carefully follow the instructions that come with the AMW catch can, as i have seen about 1 in 3 people hook it up backwards, allowing some oil into the intake tract

Dave
2007 JGCSRT8

This is not a Lightning!!!!!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ...nor do we have the issues associated with that configuration. The Lightenings draw VACUUM directly from the blower!!!

This PCV is the same system that has been around on N/A engines since the late 50's. You are totally off base and it really is a disservice to members who dont know to chicken little them with misinformation.

The engine builds pressure in the crankcase because of blowby from the rings......you either vent to atmosphere...or.. pull the blowby or relieve the pressure from the crankcase by putting it under negative pressure. Our 6.1 uses a VACUUM signal from the intake manifold that is controlled by the PVC valve.....in theory it should put the crankcase under negative pressure....the tube that runs from the oil fill spout on the manifold is suppossed to supply CLEAN FILTERED air back to the crankcase so you have this circle of ventilation in the CRANKCASE. It relieves the pressure the bottom of the pistons see.......so theoretically more power and it keeps so much pressure from building up and causing oil to leak out of the seals and gaskets.

So as stated above......the tube at the oil spout filler has a unfiltered tube that is supposed to drawn filtered air from our CAI airbox......SO what is the difference if it draws it from there or drawns it from a filter at the spout????? How in the world could that remotely affect the A/F ratio. Its not even associated with the air/fuel delivery system. The closest it comes to associating itself with our intake system is the fact that it (the VACUUM side) is delivering oil to our intake tract and coating the entire intake system, valves and cylinders and diluting the fuel/air charge with oil.

Again the 6.1 is a very simple system, obviously the Lighteneing is a more complex setup and vents different and could very well affect the driveability of that engine. That is not the case here!


http://www.lnsauto.com/articles/ford_truck_performance_20051001/ford_truck_performance_20051001_pics.shtml

GC GEEZER
04-29-2007, 11:48 AM
i hope they have enough of them because i ordered one about an hour ago. :D


on a side note, i had recently had my oil changed (1st one) at my dealership. i checked the oil level the next day cold & it was spot on. a week or so later i was looking inside my stock air cleaner box just poking around and i noticed engine oil puddles in the square pockets at the bottom, inside the box. the clean oil was coming from the crankcase breather vent tube right below the filter. it had even washed off some of the red oil from my K&N flat panel filter as it was being sucked up through. i wiped up as much oil as i could with paper towels (took about 8 paper towels) but i couldnt get all of it out of the molded squares.

i removed the vent tube completely & added a breather filter (where the fitting comes out of the oil filler tube) that i picked up from my local auto parts store. i've been running the breather filter for about a week now & no more oil in my air cleaner box & it's running fine.

now i dont know if it was actually sucking oil through the breather tube while the engine was running or the oil may have gotten down the tube when the oil was being filled during the oil change, but in any event no more oil is getting into my air cleaner.


This oil was probably the result of the oil change. My dealer's service manager told me when I bought the SRT8 that they had discovered that they needed to be careful with the oil change because if you try to fill the crankcase too fast the oil will run into the vent tube and into the air cleaner just as you described. Sounds like another one of the warnings we need to remind the dealer about if you have them change your oil. Also a good heads up to those who change their own oil. Could this be the real cause of all of those who are finding this problem?

ABeasst
04-29-2007, 12:19 PM
VAcuum.........not air!

I'm aware its vacuum but the fact still remains its a closed system.

SRedrockT8
04-29-2007, 03:53 PM
This oil was probably the result of the oil change. My dealer's service manager told me when I bought the SRT8 that they had discovered that they needed to be careful with the oil change because if you try to fill the crankcase too fast the oil will run into the vent tube and into the air cleaner just as you described. Sounds like another one of the warnings we need to remind the dealer about if you have them change your oil. Also a good heads up to those who change their own oil. Could this be the real cause of all of those who are finding this problem?

thank you, that makes the most sense to me on why oil was in my air cleaner. it was clean/clear oil that i mopped up.

HoustonSRT-8
04-29-2007, 06:49 PM
NO WAY!!!:eek: Not even close.
Wow....I think I may have been drunk. :eek:

DavesSRT8
04-30-2007, 05:19 AM
I had just posted the Lightning example, as I have only had the Jeep 2 months. The number one seller for the AMW catch cans is not Lightnings, but rather, LSx type cars (GTO's, Camaro's, Corvettes) which do not have forced induction like the Lightning. Note the ONLY accessory is an LSx bracket.

Perhaps the diff between a MAP(Jeep, correct ?) and MAF (like Lightnings, GTO's, Vettes, etc.) makes up the diff between being able to put on a breather and not affecting air/fuel and putting on a catch can.

Let us know how it works out. I have not run a breather on a car for about 30 years and would like to see how this does vs the catch can. As I said, I am new to the non-MAF world of tuning. Breather = cheaper than a 160.00 catch can. Hope this works out. I will put my AEM A/F monitor on the Jeep and install the breather and see what happens.

Dave
2007 JGCSRT8

Squilly D
04-30-2007, 12:55 PM
What do you guys think? Could something like this work? For less than $12 it may be worth trying.

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/pg_index.jsp?CNTTYPE=NAVIGATION&CNTKEY=pg_index.jsp&m=1177959197203

Sorry I could not get the search results to show so when you click on the link above do key word search for "Husky Filter". There should only be one item displayed for the search result.

Go~RillaWRX
05-01-2007, 01:43 PM
This debate is interesting. Are you guys sure that the tube coming out by oil filler is pulling air in? If that is true, there has to be somewhere else that vents the air back out of the crankcase. The catch can should be put in line between the vent and the where it connects back into the intake tract. If you have a ventilated catch can, you can lose vaccum and the closed loop system doesnt work and thats when you can get into problems. If you have a fully inclosed (sealed) catch can, you should have no issues. One problem I experienced with my WRX, is that with many catch cans, it is just an open can, and often times, the oil that is brought to the can, gets sucked right back out. The best kind have a seperator, nice AN fittings and steel wool material. I will try to draw something:

generalconfusion
05-01-2007, 06:13 PM
This debate is interesting. Are you guys sure that the tube coming out by oil filler is pulling air in? If that is true, there has to be somewhere else that vents the air back out of the crankcase. The catch can should be put in line between the vent and the where it connects back into the intake tract. If you have a ventilated catch can, you can lose vaccum and the closed loop system doesnt work and thats when you can get into problems. If you have a fully inclosed (sealed) catch can, you should have no issues. One problem I experienced with my WRX, is that with many catch cans, it is just an open can, and often times, the oil that is brought to the can, gets sucked right back out. The best kind have a seperator, nice AN fittings and steel wool material. I will try to draw something:

Good deal......actually it looks like you have drawn a rendering of the seperator by AWN.

Yes......very sure that the pupose of the rubber tube coming out of the filler tube is to pull fresh air in......otherwise the crankcase would go under complete negative and not work. All V8 motors have this configuration where the "make up" air is retrieved from the air intake tract. The catch can needs to be located between the PVC valve and the throttle body/manifold nipple. The TB nipple is providing a very strong vacuum signal.......pull it off and check it. Much stronger than any 4 or 6 cylinder engine. The Subaru engine has very very weak vacuum signal.......the tuner who just built my prototype is a Subura tuner (Harmanmotive) and he was surprised over the vacuum signal seen on this motor.......and explained the oil seperation problem on an opposed cylinder motor.

Go~RillaWRX
05-01-2007, 06:35 PM
Yeah, Harmanmotive has done great things for the subys and I would definitly trust them w/ my SRT if i was in cali. I believe that the 6.1 has more vacuum as the cylinder size would create that much more. He is completely right about the horizontally opposed oil seperation issue, high powered turbo porsches have the same problem. If the AWN catch can has the seperator tube I would say that is a great product for a great price.(even if it doesnt have steel wool, you could add it) I helped develop a couple of products in conjuction with Element tuning, one of which was there competition catch can. (theirs has a breather on top, as it was designed to work with the hydra nemesis in which there is extensive capabilities to tune for "opening" the closed loop system.)

07blksrt8
05-02-2007, 07:39 PM
I would be a little cautious.

A couple of years ago, the PCV oil "catch can" gizmos were in vogue big time in the Corvette C5 community. The LS1 engine is well known for putting oil into the intake manifold. Everyone thought they were the fix all end all.

However, guys soon started noticing slower ETs, lower dyno numbers etc., rich WOT air/fuel ratios. Lo and behold, and one guy removed has PCV gizmo while at the track and promptly got back to his prior ET number. Then everyone started taking them off again and power levels returned. What was happening was that the tube/catch cans were getting oil saturated and restricting airflow, also wreaking havoc with (richer) air/fuel mixtures.

Also remember that our 6.1 engines use synthetic oil which will stay clean and will not cause sludge etc. like a conventional oil. Lastly, I think the SRT engineers would have done something about it of this was an issue of concern.

I never did any of these PCV mods in 6 years of C5 ownership, and never had any drivability or oil related issues; I do always run a can of FI cleaner through the tank about once every 2 months. What the Corvette guys eventually started doing was to also periodically use a FI cleaner spray in the intake through the PCV, and it worked pretty o.k.

Just my .02, I would tread cautiously.

generalconfusion
05-02-2007, 10:27 PM
I would be a little cautious.


[QUOTE]What was happening was that the tube/catch cans were getting oil saturated and restricting airflow, also wreaking havoc with (richer) air/fuel mixtures.
I must tell you that this is the furthest from the possibilities! First of all the PVC valve/PVC system is activated off of V A C U U M........ not A I R...prior to the PVC system (in the 50's) you vented the crank to atmosphere and the VACUUM was not tapped into. So what your eluding to is if the catch can was plugged up it would wreak havoc?? HHHHHMMMMM... so if I was to disconnect PVC and vent my crankcase to atmosphere and off course block off the vacuum port it would wreak havoc?? That just doesnt make sense!!


Also remember that our 6.1 engines use synthetic oil which will stay clean and will not cause sludge etc. like a conventional oil. Lastly, I think the SRT engineers would have done something about it of this was an issue of concern.WRONG!! The synthetic oil does sludge up....and cooks up in the manifold and WILL cook up and collect in the intake tract. I removed my manifold and it was literally COOKED/sludged in the manifold and this has also been documented on the LX forums. Although synthetic is more stable.....it still has a point where it will flash off and burn.

Please read this article........... DXC or any other car manufacturer wouldnt let that happen.....I have a bridge!!

http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm

generalconfusion
05-02-2007, 11:36 PM
Over at the MB Forum this gentleman actually diassembled his E55 engine. He found heavy oil deposits from the PVC system. I actually removed my surge tanks to install phenolic spacers and found wet heavy oil in the surge tanks (manifolds) and in the head intake tract but not as heavy as the SRT8 manifolds we have seen here and on the LX Forums.

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=192280

Squilly D
05-03-2007, 04:20 AM
Will the effectiveness of the catch can be impacted by the length of the hose running to it or away from it?

tainui
05-03-2007, 06:43 AM
The oil catch-can is a very popular mod on the Harley .......



Most Harleys need something to catch the oil.....:D :D :D

I couldn't resist.

tainui
05-03-2007, 06:44 AM
So how do you clean out the intake tract in the mean time?

cobrakid
05-03-2007, 09:26 AM
....now I am confused a little. DO I WANT THE OIL SEPERATOR ON NOT?
....and does it go between the oil filler on the right front, or left front before the T.B.?


...the Lightnings, Harley trucks, and Cobras are boosted and are different.
so let's not compare them as much. right?

SRedrockT8
05-03-2007, 04:36 PM
....now I am confused a little. DO I WANT THE OIL SEPERATOR ON NOT?
....and does it go between the oil filler on the right front, or left front before the T.B.?


...the Lightnings, Harley trucks, and Cobras are boosted and are different.
so let's not compare them as much. right?


well since i already ordered & paid for one, i'm going to give it a try. i am going to keep a close eye on it to make sure it stays well cleaned so it doesn't clog.

it goes between the pcv valve and the throttle body (shown in red in this pic).

http://photos.imageevent.com/luv4low/miscpics/websize/jeepvalvecoversilversm.jpg

generalconfusion
05-03-2007, 05:04 PM
I received my AWM yesterday.....to good looking a part to be put under the hood.....PROBLEM.....3/8 fittings vs 1/2" hose!!!!

So I have to get the holes machined or find some way to adapt it but do not want to mess with the volume of vacuum as the engine is designed to just want to capture the heavy oil.

DavesSRT8
05-04-2007, 01:23 PM
General:
good discussion. I agree with everything you've researched and stated.

i had ordered a black anodized and it was out of stock. what color did you order ? natural finish ?

if you find replacement fittings for the hose fittings, please let me know where you got them from. I am going to check some air compressor replacement parts places, but i don't know the thread size or pitch. i assume you're just going to get replacement fittings for the 2 screw in hose adaptors ?

finally, did you buy the LS1 bracket and are planning to adapt it, or are you going to make one ? for my last AMW can, if you just let i hang off a bolt that's nearby, it wobbles quite a bit. make sure you use pretty heavy grade metal.

good luck with install and let us know how much oil after 100 miles or so. As i said before, i just used to put a small baggy under it to drain.

thanks !

Dave
2007 JGCSRT8

DavesSRT8
05-04-2007, 02:08 PM
General:
i emailed the folks at AMW and asked about adaptor fittings:

The fittings are 1/8” NPT X 3/8” hose barb.

I don’t believe you can get a 1/8” NPT X ½” barb. What I have done in the past on similar projects is to get an adapter to go from the 3/8” to ½”. I have used black plastic tube fittings from Mcmaster-Carr ( www.mcmaster.com p# 5463K639) for these applications.

Thanks for your support and if you have any questions feel free to call or email.

Hope this helps you !

Dave
2007 JGCSRT8

generalconfusion
05-04-2007, 09:12 PM
General:
i emailed the folks at AMW and asked about adaptor fittings:

The fittings are 1/8” NPT X 3/8” hose barb.

I don’t believe you can get a 1/8” NPT X ½” barb. What I have done in the past on similar projects is to get an adapter to go from the 3/8” to ½”. I have used black plastic tube fittings from Mcmaster-Carr ( www.mcmaster.com p# 5463K639) for these applications.

Thanks for your support and if you have any questions feel free to call or email.

Hope this helps you !

Dave
2007 JGCSRT8

Thanks Dave! Should have talked sooner. I have struggled with this thing for the last 4 days. Your right its 1/8 to 3/8 and the Jeep is 1/2" hose. So I went from 1/8 pipe to a 90deg...... heck I'll post a picture shortly.

generalconfusion
05-04-2007, 09:47 PM
The seperator is still in a prototype state. The hoses are temporary until I decide if I will get the threaded fitting holes machined from 1/8 pipe to 1/4 pipe...then with a 1/2" hose barb. The stock hose and pvc fitting are 1/2"......

I hooked all this up......then disconnected the crank ventilation fresh air hose located on the drivers side manifold that connects to the intake filter box......plugged the hole for like 5 seconds with my finger.....then released it and you could hear the sucking of the vacuum on the crankcase.


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/IMG_0225.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/IMG_0233.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/IMG_0231.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/IMG_0229.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/IMG_0231.jpg

DavesSRT8
05-05-2007, 05:18 AM
General:
looking good ! they did give you the nicely machined band clamp correct ? looks like it will sort of support itself where it is, but i'd still clamp it on. also, did they give you the little hose clamps ? (they used to, and they were ugly factory types). probably don't need them for non-boosted applications.

good spot for it - try to keep hoses short if possible

looks like you'll have to remove it to drain it, but no big deal. mine used to last for quite a while on my last vehicle before needing draining.

let the 'no white smoke at startup' begin ! (and better octane mix )

thanks for pics

Dave

generalconfusion
05-05-2007, 09:19 AM
General:
looking good ! they did give you the nicely machined band clamp correct ? looks like it will sort of support itself where it is, but i'd still clamp it on. also, did they give you the little hose clamps ? (they used to, and they were ugly factory types). probably don't need them for non-boosted applications.

good spot for it - try to keep hoses short if possible

looks like you'll have to remove it to drain it, but no big deal. mine used to last for quite a while on my last vehicle before needing draining.

let the 'no white smoke at startup' begin ! (and better octane mix )

thanks for pics

Dave

It doesnt move at all.....there is a ledge there and the hoses are as short as one can get them so it makes it taunt. I figured I'd check it every oil change.....but it seems to have alot of capacity.

I know how to make it smoke......start it cold let it idle about 30 seconds.....shut it off let it set a minute...start again then the puff...

DavesSRT8
05-05-2007, 10:03 AM
Sounds great ! Several good articles I've read show how octane rating is reduced by oil in the intake, and the knock sensors detect slight detonation and cause timing to be pulled. Plus this will get rid of the startup smoke, hopefully. On my last vehicle, it rapidly cleared up right after my install.

Looks like it's wedged in there pretty good - I like that placement, and it looks good there - looks like it was meant to be there. And those hoses are pretty stiff anyway - I may actually move to -6AN (-6 = about 6/10ths of an inch; close enough to 1/2") stainless braided, just for looks, which should offer more support.

You should not have to empty except, as you said, at every oil change. I'll bet you will get a teaspoonfool or so a week depending on your mileage and driving habits, but that's what I used to average.

Once again, great job and clean install !

Dave

DavesSRT8
05-05-2007, 10:07 AM
General:
forgot to add remember to clean the stainless mesh once in a while too - i use brake cleaner on it. You don't want this to become clogged. That's what happens when folks put breather filters on the filler tubes - they clog with oil rapidly and cause problems if not cleaned VERY regularly.

Keep up the great work !

Dave

generalconfusion
05-05-2007, 07:54 PM
General:
forgot to add remember to clean the stainless mesh once in a while too - i use brake cleaner on it. You don't want this to become clogged. That's what happens when folks put breather filters on the filler tubes - they clog with oil rapidly and cause problems if not cleaned VERY regularly.

Keep up the great work !

Dave


10-4........

generalconfusion
05-06-2007, 06:34 PM
After 100 miles the cans interior has a film of oil and there is a pourable amount at the bottom. Not quite a teaspoon but it wont be very long. I will reopen it at 500 and 1000......just in time for my oil change. I take a photo and post it at the 500 mark.

This is a must do modification if your concerned about oil in your intake tract and possible detonation. I also disconnected the tube running to the intake CAI box. Put a round filter at the manifold breather and plugged the box.

I have tried to make it puff smoke on start up and so far none.

BuilderBill
05-06-2007, 07:08 PM
After 100 miles the cans interior has a film of oil and there is a pourable amount at the bottom. Not quite a teaspoon but it wont be very long. I will reopen it at 500 and 1000......just in time for my oil change. I take a photo and post it at the 500 mark.

This is a must do modification if your concerned about oil in your intake tract and possible detonation. I also disconnected the tube running to the intake CAI box. Put a round filter at the manifold breather and plugged the box.

I have tried to make it puff smoke on start up and so far none.
General...good work, I believe you got this taken care of! On to the next issue.
Bill

Squilly D
05-06-2007, 07:57 PM
After 100 miles the cans interior has a film of oil and there is a pourable amount at the bottom. Not quite a teaspoon but it wont be very long. I will reopen it at 500 and 1000......just in time for my oil change. I take a photo and post it at the 500 mark.

This is a must do modification if your concerned about oil in your intake tract and possible detonation. I also disconnected the tube running to the intake CAI box. Put a round filter at the manifold breather and plugged the box.

I have tried to make it puff smoke on start up and so far none.
I'm glad to know this works. Based on your results I have placed an order this evening.

GotStroke?
05-06-2007, 11:13 PM
Anything new on the fittings?

generalconfusion
05-06-2007, 11:36 PM
Anything new on the fittings?

Andy...I left the 1/8 pipe but intend to get then drilled to maybe 1/4"........have to be careful because the side fitting is into the threads for the top screw on lid........so may have to plug that one and redrill........so far so good and may just leave it alone, especially since it seems to be working fine......the smaller fittings may cut down on total volume but that would just leave more signal in the manifold.

GotStroke?
05-07-2007, 09:27 AM
Andy...I left the 1/8 pipe but intend to get then drilled to maybe 1/4"........have to be careful because the side fitting is into the threads for the top screw on lid........so may have to plug that one and redrill........so far so good and may just leave it alone, especially since it seems to be working fine......the smaller fittings may cut down on total volume but that would just leave more signal in the manifold.


Thanks Steve!

Mango
05-12-2007, 02:50 PM
Wow, this is wild. I'll be picking one of these up. I never knew this was an issue.

generalconfusion
05-12-2007, 10:53 PM
Wow, this is wild. I'll be picking one of these up. I never knew this was an issue.

Well....still no start up puff of smoke!!!

Sova
05-12-2007, 11:40 PM
Wow, this is wild. I'll be picking one of these up. I never knew this was an issue.


Ditto, just ordered mine from Midwest. Only bummer is they are on backorder:(

Mango
05-13-2007, 08:12 AM
Bummer...they are backordered.


I'm just curious why they didn't install one of these from the factory, if it's such an issue.

OurZoo
05-13-2007, 08:44 AM
This will be an interesting question for the engineers during the next chat session no?

generalconfusion
05-13-2007, 08:08 PM
Just pulled the plugs and they are clean .......I mean nice and clean....no tan which all along was the oil burn off.

Manifold is dry and absolutely no oil at the throttle body or the vacuum opening.........and no more "puff" at start up!

generalconfusion
05-14-2007, 04:19 PM
Install a 6" piece of 1/2" rubber line and connect to the PCV valve.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/IMG_0254.jpg

Discard the plastic 1/8 pipe fittings and buy a 1/8 pipe 90 fitting to 1/4" pipe with 1/2" hose barb.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/IMG_0255.jpg

Reuse the stock 1/2 hose and connect to the catch can.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/IMG_0256.jpg

I bought this filter and adapted it to the air breather side. Bought it at Pep Boys but will be looking for a larger K&N type.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/IMG_0257.jpg

Finished product.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/IMG_0258.jpg

After 400 miles!!!! Imagine after 1,000 or 3000 at an oil change!!!
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/IMG_0251.jpg

GotStroke?
05-14-2007, 11:29 PM
Nice pics and info Steve, thanks!

OurZoo
05-15-2007, 12:31 AM
How could this be? Are you going to be on the SRT engineer chat on 300C forums on Wednesday? Someone needs to show this to them. Would I have the same problem, errr opportunity on my Charger as well?

MiamiSRT8
05-15-2007, 05:49 AM
I must admit, I'm a little concerned, it appears to be an immediate issue. I would be very interested in the engineer's opinion or our more knowledgeable members.

I found this link as a possible alternative to the "back order" site. Hope it helps.

***.alamomotorsports.com/greddy/grd_catchcan.html

Squilly D
05-15-2007, 12:46 PM
I called the number listed on the midwestpd.com website to check the status of the backordered catch cans and have not been able to get anyone to answer. I also have sent mutiple e-mails with no reply so I called accurate machine works who makes them to see if I can order direct from them. Apparently this is not the first time they have heard about issues communicating with midwest. They were very helpful and were willing to assist with the purchase direct from them. They have several hundred in stock. If you are interested just send them an e-mail letting them know what you want. I have submitted my order today and should receive later this week.

generalconfusion
05-16-2007, 01:45 AM
I called the number listed on the midwestpd.com website to check the status of the backordered catch cans and have not been able to get anyone to answer. I also have sent mutiple e-mails with no reply so I called accurate machine works who makes them to see if I can order direct from them. Apparently this is not the first time they have heard about issues communicating with midwest. They were very helpful and were willing to assist with the purchase direct from them. They have several hundred in stock. If you are interested just send them an e-mail letting them know what you want. I have submitted my order today and should receive later this week.

That is great info. Midwest has been putting alot of members off.

gut2727
05-16-2007, 09:14 AM
I called the number listed on the midwestpd.com website to check the status of the backordered catch cans and have not been able to get anyone to answer. I also have sent mutiple e-mails with no reply so I called accurate machine works who makes them to see if I can order direct from them. Apparently this is not the first time they have heard about issues communicating with midwest. They were very helpful and were willing to assist with the purchase direct from them. They have several hundred in stock. If you are interested just send them an e-mail letting them know what you want. I have submitted my order today and should receive later this week.

Thanks for digging into this Squilly,
What is American Machine Works number so I can get one on the way too?

Squilly D
05-16-2007, 10:34 AM
1-979-774-0062

Ask for Sharon.

cobrakid
05-16-2007, 11:39 AM
......quick questions....

do I have to do the small filter on the oil fill, if I do the seperator?

...and the direction of the seperator flows...to the T.B. from the pcv right?

thanks.....

SilveRT8
05-16-2007, 03:47 PM
1-979-774-0062

Ask for Sharon.

Sharon is busy, I spoke to Hope
Claude

cobrakid
05-16-2007, 05:34 PM
....you guys will prolly crack on me again, but here is my $17 like I had on my
Lightning, and vitually the same as the Steeda one I had on my 03 Cobra.

what do you think?

generalconfusion
05-16-2007, 05:38 PM
....you guys will prolly crack on me again, but here is my $17 like I had on my
Lightning, and vitually the same as the Steeda one I had on my 03 Cobra.

what do you think?

The point is to keep the oil out of the air stream.......let it collect down below the filter.

Did you go to school in a short yellow bus???...lol

Particulate filters: In a compressed air system, these filters are typically installed
before aerosol-trapping (coalescing) filters. Particulate filters are designed to trap solid
particle contaminants down to 5 microns and the separation of bulk liquids. The key
work here is “bulk”. This type of filter, which is often found in home supply stores as a
general purpose filter for compressed air systems, removes liquid water and oil.
It does NOT effectively remove air-born oil (aerosols), which is very likely to be
flowing past the PCV valve and into the engine intake. The other thing I can’t mention
enough is the fact that any filter that has a clear, polycarbonate bowl is a bad choice as
an oil catch can for 2 reasons:

1. The typical clear bowl – equipped filter has maximum operating temperature of
120 or 125° F. An LS1 engine bay can reach temperatures beyond 140° F, quite
easily, potentially causing the seal between the bowl and the inlet/outlet
component to leak.

2. Many of these filters are designed for air flow rates of greater than 20 cubic feet
per minute (CFM). Flow rates significantly below this level may allow
particulates and liquids to pass through to the engine intake – something we are
PCV Line Oil Removal 101 (continued)
Page 4 of 14
trying to avoid. I measured flow from a PCV valve at approx. 36 LPM = 1.8
CFM.
Particulate filter
Coalescing Filters: The oil-removing standard
Coalescing filters rely on mechanical filtration, which means that the flowing particles
collide and eventually adhere to filter fibers.
This type of filter is specifically designed to remove solid particulates, water and oil
aerosols down to .01 micron. Most of the well-known coalescing filter manufacturers,
like Wilkerson use borosilicate glass micro fibers. Compared to simple stainless steel
mesh, they provide “superior filtration efficiency, quick draining, and minimum pressure
drop.” Unlike standard particle filters (like the Home supply $13 specials), airflow is
inside to out. Speaking of the home supply filters that are typically sold in the compressor
accessory area of the store, most are general purpose particulate filters. These filters are
designed to remove bulk liquids and solid particles only. Aerosols such as oils will
typically pass through these filters – right on to your intake manifold. Since they do trap
some of the bulk oil, they arecertainly better than having nothing at all if the right one is
selected. Hint: The clear-bowl filters generally have a maximum operating temperature
of 125 degrees F. This is well below common engine bay temps, so avoid using a filter
having this type of bowl.

generalconfusion
05-16-2007, 05:40 PM
This was posted on the OC site and illustrates the point of this system.

http://www.conceptualpolymer.com/PCV%20Line%20Oil%20Removal%20101.pdf

Mango
05-16-2007, 05:46 PM
The point is to keep the oil out of the air stream.......let it collect down below the filter.

Did you go to school in a short yellow bus???


Wow that was uncalled for. He's just asking some simple questions and showing us what he did.

What the hell Sarge.....

generalconfusion
05-16-2007, 05:53 PM
Wow that was uncalled for. He's just asking some simple questions and showing us what he did.

What the hell Sarge.....

Dude.......relax........I was joking with him! He might as well as placed it upside down!

Mango
05-16-2007, 05:56 PM
Dude.......relax........I was joking with him! He might as well as placed it upside down!


Ohh ok! Well usually your posts are all serious! So I thought you were pissed off at him. :p

cobrakid
05-16-2007, 06:13 PM
...... told you so......

.....DAMMIT JIM, I'M A RACER , NOT A SCIENTIST! (in Star Trek voice)

I am still not convinced "we" need them in an unblown vehicle, but with all
of the posts I did it.

Before I mounted it, I was experimenting with how it worked and filtered....it
SEEMS like it suck through and has to go through the filter then back out, so
I didn't think mounting it was an issue, I will post if it collects oil or not.

My particular Jeep has every hose, line etc....clean no oil or residue what so ever,
but I do get a slight puff sometimes on start up.

Throttle body is clean and dry, oil cap to filter line, and PVC line were all
oil and mist free, I have 2500 miles on truck.

generalconfusion
05-16-2007, 08:28 PM
Ohh ok! Well usually your posts are all serious! So I thought you were pissed off at him. :p

I think I just write to seriously. Thats the prblem with email.....you cant hear the voice or see the face.....lol!

jlandbl
05-17-2007, 06:15 AM
You guys see this response from the SRT Engineers last night?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResumeSpeed
Post #1: One of the latest "mod" rages is the installation of an "oil catch can" for the "reduction of oil into the intake manifold". What's your opinion on the necessity or advantages/disadvantages of these?
Post #2: I had the terminology wrong, as Blown7 noted I should have said "air/oil separator" - can you guys re-comment on the necessity/advantages/disadvantages of adding an oil separator.

SRT Engineer Answer to Post #2:
"A seperator should not be required. Race cars want the best conditioned air to make power an use seperators in their dry sump systems."

Mango
05-17-2007, 09:55 AM
Boy do I feel like a doof. I totally missed that response.

Well, I think all of us want the "best conditioned air" for our engines. Thus, why I'm adding one.

MiamiSRT8
05-17-2007, 10:28 AM
Honesly I am more confused than ever.
Is the oil collected due to too much oil, does than mean we run below recommended settings and see waht happens....I think not.

An oil seperater is not needed, but racer's use them for better conditioned air??? Ummm, lost me on that one sparky..

Is "providing a straight answer" not required reading in engineer land.

Sorry for the rant, but you make a sizable investment for this??

Cheesus, It feels like I'm talking to my ex-wife again....

I'm going to get a beer.

Mango
05-17-2007, 10:40 AM
Cheesus, It feels like I'm talking to my ex-wife again....

I'm going to get a beer.


Is that why she's your ex? :p :D I'm kidding!

cobrakid
05-17-2007, 02:09 PM
mine has oil in it after 1 day.......it is the "BOBO" one I installed and
got cracked on.

Will post pics tonight.

later....

cobrakid
05-17-2007, 06:44 PM
...pictures, General, it's removing something? definately has an eye dropper's
worth of oil and mist in it.

Like I said this is the exact same seperator I had on both Lightnings and my
Cobra and it kept the "stuff" clean.

GotStroke?
05-17-2007, 09:15 PM
The SRT engineers are what they are. Simply stated, aftermarket>OEM when it comes to building for more power, durability, longevity, etc. They simply don't have the same constraints.
To say that the oil catch can isn't a good idea is not only wrong, it's hilarious.

generalconfusion
05-17-2007, 11:25 PM
You guys see this response from the SRT Engineers last night?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResumeSpeed
Post #1: One of the latest "mod" rages is the installation of an "oil catch can" for the "reduction of oil into the intake manifold". What's your opinion on the necessity or advantages/disadvantages of these?
Post #2: I had the terminology wrong, as Blown7 noted I should have said "air/oil separator" - can you guys re-comment on the necessity/advantages/disadvantages of adding an oil separator.

SRT Engineer Answer to Post #2:
"A seperator should not be required. Race cars want the best conditioned air to make power an use seperators in their dry sump systems."

Of course.......do you think there are going to assume liability to remove intake manifolds and replace them for it to happen again. Then the dealer is going to ask why did you remove the manifold in the first place?

See where I'm going with this........the more savvy owner is going to do something about it.

fast cojon
05-23-2007, 06:51 AM
ordered mine from the all infamous ebay

GotStroke?
05-24-2007, 12:45 AM
Steve, PMs are full.

Hate to ask you this, but the guys that run the nearest two Napa's to me are idiots at best. Would you happen to have the part number(s) I need for the fittings I repalce on the ACM catch can?
Also, am I correct in that I'll also need an additional 6 inches of 1/2" dia rubber hose?

Thanks

Squilly D
05-24-2007, 05:54 AM
Steve, PMs are full.

Hate to ask you this, but the guys that run the nearest two Napa's to me are idiots at best. Would you happen to have the part number(s) I need for the fittings I repalce on the ACM catch can?
Also, am I correct in that I'll also need an additional 6 inches of 1/2" dia rubber hose?

Thanks
You will probably have better luck going to your local hardware store to get the fittings compared to an automotive store.

SRT-8 Hemi
05-25-2007, 09:30 PM
I went to some auto stores and couldnt find anything? Where did you get yours at?

SRT-8 Hemi
05-25-2007, 09:31 PM
...pictures, General, it's removing something? definately has an eye dropper's
worth of oil and mist in it.

Like I said this is the exact same seperator I had on both Lightnings and my
Cobra and it kept the "stuff" clean.

Where can I get one of these?

SRTJeep
05-26-2007, 04:30 AM
Adding an external breather Voids the Emission Warranty and Emission Tests(if required) I ran one on my Buick GN for years with no problem. Sucking oil fumes into the intake can be a problem for sure. Adding a breather changes the whole PCV System by making it inoperative. I like the breather better than a catch can, IMHO. Gene

SRT-8 Hemi
05-26-2007, 04:35 PM
Has anyone done this on a 300C or Charger SRT-8 yet?

generalconfusion
05-27-2007, 07:15 PM
Adding an external breather Voids the Emission Warranty and Emission Tests(if required) I ran one on my Buick GN for years with no problem. Sucking oil fumes into the intake can be a problem for sure. Adding a breather changes the whole PCV System by making it inoperative. I like the breather better than a catch can, IMHO. Gene

ITS NOT AN EXTERNAL BREATHER.........A CATCH CAN DOES NOT MAKE IT INOPERATIVE....IT STILL REMAINS A CLOSED SYSTEM...THE PCV VALVE IS STILL INTACT.......PLEASE RESEARCH WHAT THIS IS.......YOU ARE NOT VIEWING IT CORRECTLY OR UNDERSTANDING THE CONCEPT.

mike@bwp
05-28-2007, 08:42 PM
were selling catch cans on srt-4 forums, check us out "bwoody performance"

i did not think that the srt-8 would need it but now that i think about it, i guess it does oil in the intake tract lowers octane numbers, guess i'll try it tomorrow.

im new here, i just bought a srt-8 jeep for my wife this morning i am so pleased with our purchase! im ready to start modding the hell out of it.

generalconfusion
05-29-2007, 12:01 AM
were selling catch cans on srt-4 forums, check us out "bwoody performance"

i did not think that the srt-8 would need it but now that i think about it, i guess it does oil in the intake tract lowers octane numbers, guess i'll try it tomorrow.

im new here, i just bought a srt-8 jeep for my wife this morning i am so pleased with our purchase! im ready to start modding the hell out of it.

Welcome.........put one on right away......here is at 400 miles....imagine 4,000!!!!

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/sgtstanko/IMG_0251.jpg

Blown-WK
05-29-2007, 08:46 PM
Just curious but do you guys ever experience a puff of smoke when accelerating from a stop? Is this only happening on startup or every time oil enters the manifold?

generalconfusion
05-29-2007, 09:10 PM
Just curious but do you guys ever experience a puff of smoke when accelerating from a stop? Is this only happening on startup or every time oil enters the manifold?

It happens on start up.......it could be from a stop if your PCV valve is defective. Open the throttle body and look inside with a flash light or run your finger under the port that pulls on the PVC valve. My guess your manifold is oil soaked.