DR heads, 268 cam, and Kooks headers, -- track times comparison [Archive] - Cherokee SRT8 Forum

: DR heads, 268 cam, and Kooks headers, -- track times comparison


Grip Grip
03-22-2007, 08:52 PM
I installed the DR heads, 268 cam, and Kooks headers a couple weeks ago, here are my before and after 1/8 mile numbers:

-----BEFORE ----- AFTER
60' -----1.851 ----- 1.789
330' -----5.374 ----- 5.416
1/8 -----8.364 ----- 8.435
MPH -----82.34 ----- 82.40

I only got one run in tonight, but from past experience the first run is usually one of the best.

FYI, I haven't calculated DA, but the altitude and temp were comparable.

:confused:

I'm too disgusted to comment further.

Street WK
03-22-2007, 08:54 PM
OUCH! :( Sorry to see.

FastSRT8GC
03-22-2007, 08:56 PM
Something is very wrong, this is impossible. Something happen after the 60.

Razorecko
03-22-2007, 09:03 PM
That sucks man, but i'm more than sure its that darn ole' DC PCM holding things back. Without a true tune the car just wont open up.

timster
03-22-2007, 09:20 PM
that's ***t up! I thought the head and cam combo from DR added an additional 75 HP at the wheels?

saywhat
03-22-2007, 09:22 PM
Whats up with these #'s! That sucks!

GotStroke?
03-22-2007, 09:24 PM
How does the Jeep feel now seat of the pants wise compared to right after the install? How many miles on it since going H/C/headers?

promo718
03-22-2007, 09:25 PM
75 at the wheels? different version, this one adds 1/10th to the quarter.

sorry couldn't resist. it's very frustrating spending time & money, having high expectations, and actually doing worse..wow.

BDNJ
03-22-2007, 10:31 PM
Don't give up hope. Any cel lights on? Did you run on the dyno? What air intake? My Mopar air intake put my modded truck @ lower hp #'s than stock. Stock on the Mustang dyno 317; after all mods and Mopar cai filter 301!!!!:eek: The filter on the Mopar cai cost me 56hp @ the wheels! I repeat 56 hp @ the wheels. I took off the restrictive filter and put on a 4"x 9" K&N filter and went up to 357 with the stall converter!


You can have all the power in the world, but if you can't get enough air to combust, you got nothin! My truck is going back to the dyno this wknd with an Arc1 to manually adjust the a/f readings. My truck was running 10.6 @ 6100. Way too rich. 12.3 will be just right.


Any a/f readings?


Brendan

BuilderBill
03-22-2007, 10:34 PM
I installed the DR heads, 268 cam, and Kooks headers a couple weeks ago, here are my before and after 1/8 mile numbers:

-----BEFORE ----- AFTER
60' -----1.851 ----- 1.789
330' -----5.374 ----- 5.416
1/8 -----8.364 ----- 8.435
MPH -----82.34 ----- 82.40

I only got one run in tonight, but from past experience the first run is usually one of the best.

FYI, I haven't calculated DA, but the altitude and temp were comparable.

:confused:

I'm too disgusted to comment further.
Very unfortunately NOT shocking. Sorry.
Bill

BDNJ
03-22-2007, 11:19 PM
Also - did you change your spark plug gap and possibly run 1 heat range colder?

SRTJeep
03-23-2007, 12:18 AM
I'm sorry to read this but not surprised. The stock cam is a beautiful grind, lots of duration and runs so smooth in a street engine. The heads don't help or the headers. (not only my opinion only but some serious Mopar Gurus that have tested some of these parts) They have installed the stock 6.1 Hemi cam in a 5.7 Hemi and made big gains. No ported 6.1 Hemi head will add anything to a drag strip run because of its port profile that comes alive near the red line or at the tranny's shift points. Your choice though to install whatever parts you desire. I'm all for performance but only using proven parts based on solid tuning principals. I'm no fan of Comp Cams as they cost me thousands of dollars on my Turbo Buick's Engine and others that went flat and filled the engine with metal shavings, several vendors went bankrupt over their cams. I've posted why the 6.1 Hemi head is the wrong head on this engine due to the port shapes and proven on the flow bench, sluggish port velocity on the intake side. To each his own though, and my saying; "Whatever Turns Your Crank". Good Tuning. Gene

GotStroke?
03-23-2007, 12:34 AM
Gene,
Are you aware of a single motor, throughout the history of the internal combustion engine, that didn't perform better with quality ported heads and longtube headers vs stock castings and OEM iron manifolds? Because I'm not.

Hallstar
03-23-2007, 12:46 AM
Man...I'm scheduled to put mine on next week and if thats the case I will kill somebody...everybody!!! I could've bought a supercharger from asm for what I've spent on this other ****!!! BDNJ you got your stuff put on at Tune Time right and you said yours is sick now...RIGHT? Somebody let me know cause I will sell everything!!!

FastSRT8GC
03-23-2007, 06:22 AM
Everyone with heads purchased, ordered or in route.. These numbers indicate a problem, I am sure of it.

MattFAB please jump in seeing lots of us have oreder your heads and are waiting.


My guess is a traction issue or a install issue. JUST A GUESS!!

gculver
03-23-2007, 08:35 AM
Sorry to hear that Grip, It's frustrating to say the least, I know. Did you get the B&G liked we talked about or still running the OEM ECM.

gculver
03-23-2007, 08:45 AM
I'm sorry to read this but not surprised. The stock cam is a beautiful grind, lots of duration and runs so smooth in a street engine. The heads don't help or the headers. (not only my opinion only but some serious Mopar Gurus that have tested some of these parts) They have installed the stock 6.1 Hemi cam in a 5.7 Hemi and made big gains. No ported 6.1 Hemi head will add anything to a drag strip run because of its port profile that comes alive near the red line or at the tranny's shift points. Your choice though to install whatever parts you desire. I'm all for performance but only using proven parts based on solid tuning principals. I'm no fan of Comp Cams as they cost me thousands of dollars on my Turbo Buick's Engine and others that went flat and filled the engine with metal shavings, several vendors went bankrupt over their cams. I've posted why the 6.1 Hemi head is the wrong head on this engine due to the port shapes and proven on the flow bench, sluggish port velocity on the intake side. To each his own though, and my saying; "Whatever Turns Your Crank". Good Tuning. Gene

Gene, While our views differ from time to time. I would have to agree with you on the 6.1L heads, cleanup the exhaust side, leave intake side alone, Thats about the best your gonna do, However, I do think there is power in the cam, givin the right combo.IMO

BDNJ
03-23-2007, 08:53 AM
Man...I'm scheduled to put mine on next week and if thats the case I will kill somebody...everybody!!! I could've bought a supercharger from asm for what I've spent on this other ****!!! BDNJ you got your stuff put on at Tune Time right and you said yours is sick now...RIGHT? Somebody let me know cause I will sell everything!!!


Hallstar: the power is there. Putting it down is another story. LSD? And this weekend I am manually adjusting my a/f at the peak rpm where the 268 cam develops the most hp. So my #'s should go up. To quote my shop owner..."the truck is nasty"!

If you look at my sig, I've done the s/c route before. I trying to stay with naturally aspirated big cubes.

Come on up and drive it! I fully welcome you.


Brendan

FastMatt
03-23-2007, 10:39 AM
I installed the DR heads, 268 cam, and Kooks headers a couple weeks ago, here are my before and after 1/8 mile numbers:

-----BEFORE ----- AFTER
60' -----1.851 ----- 1.789
330' -----5.374 ----- 5.416
1/8 -----8.364 ----- 8.435
MPH -----82.34 ----- 82.40

I only got one run in tonight, but from past experience the first run is usually one of the best.

FYI, I haven't calculated DA, but the altitude and temp were comparable.

:confused:

I'm too disgusted to comment further.



Same track? same DA? I know you travel all over the country, if you runs are at 1000's of feet different DA I would not be surprised at all.

something is for sure wrong.

What Spark plugs did thy install?

are YOU positive thy got your cam timing correct? and it's not a tooth off?

I have driven these Jeeps before and after the heads/cam installs and there totally different animals, and run them on the Dyno. There not even in the same ball park after the heads/cam. You have something wrong.

Also you are compeering your Best ever before 1/8 mile pass vs your one and only 1/8 mile pass after. Not exactly a fair comparison.

Do you have any 1/4 mile tracks?

look at threads like this one

http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2500&highlight=dynamic+racing


His Description after the heads/cam install

I just picked up my Jeep and it is running UNBELIEVABLE!!! It's definately making some real good power...from a dead stop the tires will fry right through first gear. It feels like im spraying my 100 shot!! I think this is by far the best mod available and im extremely happy with my choice. I only have 22 miles on it so the computer still needs to learn a few more things. Im sure it will only get better. I still have the stock PCM but I plan on doing the B&G flash next.
I will get to the track as soon as I can so I can get you guy's some 1/4 times to see how much I gained.

Matt, you did an awesome job on the heads!! You're H/C combo is a must for anyone looking for some REAL HP GAINS!!
Thank's for making my Jeep FLY and also for the GREAT customer service you provided since day 1.

That does not happen from a preformance loss, lol

BDNJ
03-23-2007, 10:47 AM
something is for sure wrong.

.


totally agree!

GotStroke?
03-23-2007, 11:06 AM
Gene, While our views differ from time to time. I would have to agree with you on the 6.1L heads, cleanup the exhaust side, leave intake side alone, Thats about the best your gonna do, However, I do think there is power in the cam, givin the right combo.IMO


You realize that reputable porters often fill (weld/epoxy) ports and reshape them? This is a much better solution than just leaving them as is.

rainmaker
03-23-2007, 11:09 AM
I installed the DR heads, 268 cam, and Kooks headers a couple weeks ago, here are my before and after 1/8 mile numbers:

-----BEFORE ----- AFTER
60' -----1.851 ----- 1.789
330' -----5.374 ----- 5.416
1/8 -----8.364 ----- 8.435
MPH -----82.34 ----- 82.40

I only got one run in tonight, but from past experience the first run is usually one of the best.

FYI, I haven't calculated DA, but the altitude and temp were comparable.

:confused:

I'm too disgusted to comment further.


Grip,

Sorry to hear of the headaches. I've followed your threads with the previous problems on the other site .... Hang in there.

Do you have access to a scan tool (dashhawk or other)? Time to do some data logging to see where the problem is. Until you can talk to the computer you'll only be guessing what could be wrong at this point. Find out the air/fuel, knock retard, o2 milivolts, etc... it'll help narrow down the problem rather than guessing. Heck it might even tell you that things are okay. *shrug* Get a Dashhawk and get some data. Post your findings.

Good luck!

Grip Grip
03-23-2007, 11:15 AM
Same track? same DA? I know you travel all over the country, if you runs are at 1000's of feet different DA I would not be surprised at all.

something is for sure wrong.

What Spark plugs did thy install?

I have driven these Jeeps before and after the heads/cam installs and there totally different animals. You have something wrong.

Also you are compeering your Best ever before 1/8 mile pass vs your one and only 1/8 mile pass after. Not exactly a fair comparison.

Do you have any 1/4 mile tracks?

The previous runs were a month ago in Texas with a worst run that day of 8.473 and a best of 8.364.

I can't locate a site to give me temp, pressure and humidity for those nights, so please help me out if you can.

Ennis, Tx (Texas Motorplex--500') 1:13 PM on 2/17/07
Greensboro, NC (Piedmont Dragway--1000') 7:45 PM on 3/23/07

As for the plugs, they replaced them with factory plugs and factory gapping.

There are no 1/4 mile tracks closer than 90 minutes each way.

By the way, last night for the first time I've adjusted the tire pressure at the track, I decreased the Rears to 25 PSI and increased the fronts to 40 PSI.

BDNJ
03-23-2007, 11:21 AM
What filter on the Mopar cai?

FastMatt
03-23-2007, 11:31 AM
The previous runs were a month ago in Texas with a worst run that day of 8.473 and a best of 8.364.

I can't locate a site to give me temp, pressure and humidity for those nights, so please help me out if you can.

Ennis, Tx (Texas Motorplex--500') 1:13 PM on 2/17/07
Greensboro, NC (Piedmont Dragway--1000') 7:45 PM on 3/23/07

As for the plugs, they replaced them with factory plugs and factory gapping.

There are no 1/4 mile tracks closer than 90 minutes each way.

By the way, last night for the first time I adjust tire pressure. I decreased the Rears to 25 PSI and increased the fronts to 40 PSI.


So different tracks, in different state, at different elevation’s.

gculver
03-23-2007, 12:07 PM
You realize that reputable porters often fill (weld/epoxy) ports and reshape them? This is a much better solution than just leaving them as is.

Yes, I do!!, Then what about the intake(proper). As far as better.??

bevsjeepsrt8
03-23-2007, 01:31 PM
Grip, Hang in there...There has to be an answer to this...Mine still feels like it's running well. If This weather holds off I'll have my results tomorrow from E-Town to compare...Meeting up with a few members.

Grip Grip
03-23-2007, 01:52 PM
So different tracks, in different state, at different elevation’s.

Yes, you are correct and here are the DA and corrected ET's and MPH for both.


Baseline: Ennis, Tx (Texas Motorplex--500') 1:13 PM on 2/17/07
Calculated DA is 216'
I took the average of my best and worst run and applied the calculated DA to correct my baseline timeslip:
-------8.4185 ET @ 82.08 MPH


Post install: Greensboro, NC (Piedmont Dragway--1000') 7:45 PM on 3/23/07
Calculated DA is 1475' so timeslip is corrected to:
-------8.298 ET @ 83.78 MPH

This equates to a .12 decrease in the 1/8 mile ET with a 1.7 MPH increase.

According to the online calculators, my new corrected 1/4 ET is 13.00 and my baseline corrected 1/4 ET is 13.15.

So something must be wrong other than the DA if after correcting for DA to sea level I only cut 1.5 tenths off my 1/4 mile ET.

gremlinsteve
03-23-2007, 02:02 PM
at first thought i would say it needs a good tune.
wouldnt run that well if the timing was off ect.

the parts fastmatt sells are good, so in my opinion thats not an issue.

sparkknock could be an issue, but without a data log of the car at wot how can you tell.

steve-o

FastSRT8GC
03-23-2007, 02:10 PM
GRIP,

Did you remove your ABS fuse or do you have a switch for it?

From other posts I noticed people were having a hard time with the tires going a blaze after the H/C install. Maybe you had a Ok 60ft and in second the TCM cut you back due to some slippage?

BuilderBill
03-23-2007, 02:24 PM
Did you remove your ABS fuse or do you have a switch for it?
Fast,
His 60' times were not terrible, therefore most likely not a traction issue or spinning the tires.

Be careful removing the ABS fuse, I FRIED the left front and right rear and looked pretty silly doing it!
Bill

FastMatt
03-23-2007, 02:34 PM
Yes, you are correct and here are the DA and corrected ET's and MPH for both.


Baseline: Ennis, Tx (Texas Motorplex--500') 1:13 PM on 2/17/07
Calculated DA is 216'
I took the average of my best and worst run and applied the calculated DA to correct my baseline timeslip:
-------8.4185 ET @ 82.08 MPH


Post install: Greensboro, NC (Piedmont Dragway--1000') 7:45 PM on 3/23/07
Calculated DA is 1475' so timeslip is corrected to:
-------8.298 ET @ 83.78 MPH

This equates to a .12 decrease in the 1/8 mile ET with a 1.7 MPH increase.

According to the online calculators, my new corrected 1/4 ET is 13.00 and my baseline corrected 1/4 ET is 13.15.

So something must be wrong other than the DA if after corrected for DA to sea level I only cut 1.5 tenths off my 1/4 mile ET.

so is was a ~1270+ft difference in DA


As for trying to figure out 1/4 mile times from 1/8 miles that’s very hard to do, there is allot going on up there. I have times slips for my Stealths that have slower 1/8 mile ET's and quicker 1/4 mile times. From changing set-up’s on the car. Setting a car up for 1/8 mile runs and setting one up for 1/4 mile are 2 totally different things.

But gaining nearly 2mph in the 1/8 mile is quite a bit for a 1/8 mile gain in a 5000lb truck with driver. I would Expect that to be 4mph in the 1/4 mile (and really seeing how heads/cam mods always shine in the second 1/2 of the track may be more) and that’s a hell of allot.

You are still talking different tracks.

FastSRT8GC
03-23-2007, 02:50 PM
Fast,


Be careful removing the ABS fuse, I FRIED the left front and right rear and looked pretty silly doing it!
Bill

LOL, GOOD JOB BILL you crazy MF. You need that Diff also!!!! ;)

GotStroke?
03-23-2007, 03:40 PM
Yes, I do!!, Then what about the intake(proper). As far as better.??


I'm not sure I follow your response? If you're talking about the intake manifold, cut that ***** in half and have at it. It's going to cost hours or dollars to do, but it can be done fairly easily.

BuilderBill
03-23-2007, 04:10 PM
LOL, GOOD JOB BILL you crazy MF. You need that Diff also!!!! ;)
I believe in the future ;) that the diff will be the thing that lets go at Rockingham.
Fast..I though you would test the diff 1st???
Bill

gculver
03-23-2007, 04:21 PM
I'm not sure I follow your response? If you're talking about the intake manifold, cut that ***** in half and have at it. It's going to cost hours or dollars to do, but it can be done fairly easily.

Yes, I was talkin about the intake. I'm not willing to spend time,time,time,time on an intake just yet. I have however, considered playing with the lower plenum plate. How'bout you cut one in half,play awhile and let us know- It's good therapy, if you know what I mean.

split2112
03-23-2007, 04:31 PM
Could it be the 1-2 hesitation??....may be a dumb question, but just a thought.

GotStroke?
03-23-2007, 04:36 PM
Yes, I was talkin about the intake. I'm not willing to spend time,time,time,time on an intake just yet. I have however, considered playing with the lower plenum plate. How'bout you cut one in half,play awhile and let us know- It's good therapy, if you know what I mean.


That's why I picked up a spare;)

gculver
03-23-2007, 04:41 PM
That's why I picked up a spare;)

I have a spare also, now that I know you do, there is no excuses. Man, get busy would ya!!!:D .

Grip Grip
03-23-2007, 05:39 PM
so is was a ~1270+ft difference in DA


As for trying to figure out 1/4 mile times from 1/8 miles that’s very hard to do, there is allot going on up there. I have times slips for my Stealths that have slower 1/8 mile ET's and quicker 1/4 mile times. From changing set-up’s on the car. Setting a car up for 1/8 mile runs and setting one up for 1/4 mile are 2 totally different things.

But gaining nearly 2mph in the 1/8 mile is quite a bit for a 1/8 mile gain in a 5000lb truck with driver. I would Expect that to be 4mph in the 1/4 mile (and really seeing how heads/cam mods always shine in the second 1/2 of the track may be more) and that’s a hell of allot.

You are still talking different tracks.



I'll be the first to admit the Jeep feels much more responsive and much quicker from a dig. I think my next test will be to meet up with someone stock and see what it does side-by-side.
Anyway, with traction control off it really wants to light up the tires now.

If your reading this, don't do anything hasty like canceling orders or the such--my run last night might have been a fluke.
I went with Matt (DR) because of his reputation and I hope no one thinks my intentions are to rake him over the coals.

FastMatt
03-23-2007, 06:38 PM
Something I cant stress enough is that don’t forget this is 1/8 mile. My street Stealth and my race car are only 2/10th apart in the 1/8 mile, but in the 1/4 mile are nearly a full second apart!

SilverSRT8
03-23-2007, 07:20 PM
I am looking within the next 2 or 3 months to get heads, cam, intake and headers( all at once)... I have NO IDEA who to go with! I am not very strong in that area. I need to start with some more research.

FastSRT8GC
03-23-2007, 07:30 PM
I am looking within the next 2 or 3 months to get heads, cam, intake and headers( all at once)... I have NO IDEA who to go with! I am not very strong in that area. I need to start with some more research.
MattFab should have my heads cam and headers here some time this week. So with in a week or two i wll have it dyno'd and then re dyno'd for the #'s I am expecting 75-100Hp gain. They have seen 75HP w/o headers and a stock exhaust!!!

GotStroke?
03-25-2007, 01:26 PM
In case any of you don't visit the blue site, Bevsjeep (Mark) ran 1.719 12.236@109.93 naturally aspirated with his DR heads/cam/full exhaust and a B&G tune on 3/24.

http://www.***********/forums/showthread.php?t=7507


Obviously the gains are there, and again it's the OEM engine management holding us back. How many stockers have we seen run that number, and what do these results say about your "no gains with stock heads" theory Gene? :)

BDNJ
03-26-2007, 07:51 AM
Here's some more proof the DR head/268 works. Ran this on a dyno this wknd. All adjusted 29.9 , 77 air, sea level, hood open, one fan for air, etc for 5050 lbs all in. I was unable to correct for the previous rich condition (10.6) a/f above 5000 rpm in 4th, but still good nonetheless. I ran this # twice; within .05 of eachother. A little more tweaking and ?????

I have an air locker for the rear on order now.....for the traction issues!

P.S. - no exhaust other than headers...as per wife!:rolleyes:





Brendan

BDNJ
03-26-2007, 07:54 AM
Oh btw - with the 3200 stall converter, the Mustang dyno showed 359awhp/358tq; the dyno-jet conversion was running approx. 408/403 hp;



AND STILL NO TUNE!!!!!

timster
03-26-2007, 07:57 AM
since the DR heads are hand ported, is it possible that different heads could perform differently? My point being that maybe Grip Grip's heads are crap compared to Bevs and BDNj's.

Just a thought. :)

BuilderBill
03-26-2007, 07:59 AM
Oh btw - with the 3200 stall converter, the Mustang dyno showed 359awhp/358tq; the dyno-jet conversion was running approx. 408/403 hp;



AND STILL NO TUNE!!!!!
How is the drivability of the 3200 stall converter? With the 2600 stall, my wife and I can not feel any difference in normal driving.
Bill

BDNJ
03-26-2007, 08:07 AM
The 3200 has a pretty soft start (good for the snow - lol), but 3/4 pedal and you're gone. The key here is the str. The Vig 3200 has a 2.0-2.3 str. Stock str's are 1.6 ish; a 2600 probably has a 1.7-8. The 3200 has very, very little drop-off in rrr's between shifts! I have over 4000 miles on the stall; no issues.


The key to the big stall at the track will be the air-locker.


Also: that 1.65 60' time defintely could have been better. I didn't even run up the stall on it!

BuilderBill
03-26-2007, 09:25 AM
The 3200 has a pretty soft start (good for the snow - lol), but 3/4 pedal and you're gone. The key here is the str. The Vig 3200 has a 2.0-2.3 str. Stock str's are 1.6 ish; a 2600 probably has a 1.7-8. The 3200 has very, very little drop-off in rrr's between shifts! I have over 4000 miles on the stall; no issues.


The key to the big stall at the track will be the air-locker.


Also: that 1.65 60' time defintely could have been better. I didn't even run up the stall on it!
Interested to see how the air-locker works for you. Looks like a great product.
1.65 is a great time so far!
Bill

nyc_srt8
03-26-2007, 09:36 AM
Here is 2 of bevsjeepsrt8 runs at e-town with DR heads, comp cam, kooks headers, corsa cat-back and b&g stage2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SXJgANbRSA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GiCMrsrm-Q

PS - his best of the day was a 12.2

BDNJ
03-26-2007, 09:43 AM
Interested to see how the air-locker works for you. Looks like a great product.
1.65 is a great time so far!
Bill



It's ordered. I figure next week it will be in. I will get the front set as well ONLY if necessary.

BDNJ
03-26-2007, 09:45 AM
Here is 2 of bevsjeepsrt8 runs at e-town with DR heads, comp cam, kooks headers, corsa cat-back and b&g stage2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SXJgANbRSA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GiCMrsrm-Q

PS - his best of the day was a 12.2


Tremendous runs! I wish I had a tune available.

BuilderBill
03-26-2007, 09:55 AM
Tremendous runs! I wish I had a tune available.
I'm just not confident we will see a '07 B&G PCM. I think we are on our own.
Bill

BDNJ
03-26-2007, 09:58 AM
I'm just not confident we will see a '07 B&G PCM. I think we are on our own.
Bill


Bill - I was supposed to adjust a/f and timing with my Arc1 this past weekend, but the pcm wouldn't let it through. More attempts this coming weekend. Otherwise - we wait for the BG I guess.:cool:

BuilderBill
03-26-2007, 10:28 AM
Bill - I was supposed to adjust a/f and timing with my Arc1 this past weekend, but the pcm wouldn't let it through. More attempts this coming weekend. Otherwise - we wait for the BG I guess.:cool:
I have the supercharger ordered from AZ speed & Marine...they have a piggyback that works in conjunction with the stock PCM to adjust timing and A/F (I believe). I am heading to golf out there in about 2 weeks, I will pay Jim a visit and review the tuning with him. Sure hope they have it figured out, using the huffer! Hate to run over a burned piston / broken rod.
Bill

BDNJ
03-26-2007, 10:34 AM
I have the supercharger ordered from AZ speed & Marine...they have a piggyback that works in conjunction with the stock PCM to adjust timing and A/F (I believe). I am heading to golf out there in about 2 weeks, I will pay Jim a visit and review the tuning with him. Sure hope they have it figured out, using the huffer! Hate to run over a burned piston / broken rod.
Bill


I sure hope they will sell the piggy-back separately. I would like to see what I can pick up with my mods, plus the air-locker before I go to forced ind. Skip the golf :D and get over to him. This is painful-as you know.

GotStroke?
03-26-2007, 10:39 AM
I sure hope they will sell the piggy-back separately. I would like to see what I can pick up with my mods, plus the air-locker before I go to forced ind. Skip the golf :D and get over to him. This is painful-as you know.


Are you sure the air locker fits the 8.9" ring gear we have (vs. normal 8.5")?

I'm also wondering how our heavily e monitored driveline will take to a locker.

BDNJ
03-26-2007, 10:45 AM
Are you sure the air locker fits the 8.9" ring gear we have (vs. normal 8.5")?

I'm also wondering how our heavily e monitored driveline will take to a locker.


My shop is making calls this week. I will remind them to triple-check the gear. Thanks. I will go Truetrac otherwise.

GotStroke?
03-26-2007, 10:52 AM
My shop is making calls this week. I will remind them to triple-check the gear. Thanks. I will go Truetrac otherwise.


That's the thing, I'd rather go truetrac myself but I'm not sure that's 8.9" either.

BDNJ
03-26-2007, 10:58 AM
My shop is on it as we speak. I asked them to check both if poss.

GotStroke?
03-26-2007, 10:58 AM
My shop is on it as we speak. I asked them to check both if poss.

Awesome, thanks.

FastMatt
03-26-2007, 11:28 AM
since the DR heads are hand ported, is it possible that different heads could perform differently? My point being that maybe Grip Grip's heads are crap compared to Bevs and BDNj's.

Just a thought. :)


I think not, there all ported by the same person, and flowed on the same flow bench.

BuilderBill
03-26-2007, 02:12 PM
That's the thing, I'd rather go truetrac myself but I'm not sure that's 8.9" either.
Stroker....what else can we do with the diff (s)? I'm sure the electronics are not going to like any mod to the diff (s).
Bill

GotStroke?
03-26-2007, 02:47 PM
Stroker....what else can we do with the diff (s)? I'm sure the electronics are not going to like any mod to the diff (s).
Bill


That's a great question Bill. First, we have to find a diff that will actually work/fit with our exact setup. Hopefully it ends up being a torsen or truetrac, or at the very least a clutch type posi. Then, maybe, if we cross our fingers, and click our ruby red heels together three times, it will work as it's supposed to without ineterference from the driveline e nanny.
Honestly, I don't think any of us know for sure how the electronics will react to a real limited slip diff. I can almost guarantee that a locker will cause issues, but I'm really hoping we can get away with one of the above mentioned units.
I've read/heard that the B&G stage III flash has no torque management at all. If all else fails this presents us with another variable to test I suppose.

Isn't trailblazing fun? :p

BuilderBill
03-26-2007, 03:09 PM
That's a great question Bill. First, we have to find a diff that will actually work/fit with our exact setup. Hopefully it ends up being a torsen or truetrac, or at the very least a clutch type posi. Then, maybe, if we cross our fingers, and click our ruby red heels together three times, it will work as it's supposed to without ineterference from the driveline e nanny.
Honestly, I don't think any of us know for sure how the electronics will react to a real limited slip diff. I can almost guarantee that a locker will cause issues, but I'm really hoping we can get away with one of the above mentioned units.
I've read/heard that the B&G stage III flash has no torque management at all. If all else fails this presents us with another variable to test I suppose.

Isn't trailblazing fun? :p
Fun, hmmm, yeah maybe. Funny, a year from now we will look back and see how far we have taken these things.

Just got off the 4 WD dyno (no pulling wires or fuses) in Concord (home of Nascar / Lowes speedway etc.) what a blast. The JGC was a hit..cat back & Volant producing 368 all wheel drive hp. Looks like an electronic hickup on the 2nd dyno sheet. Yes, I am getting a baseline for some fun stuff in the next few months.
Bill

FastMatt
03-26-2007, 03:35 PM
Fun, hmmm, yeah maybe. Funny, a year from now we will look back and see how far we have taken these things.

Just got off the 4 WD dyno (no pulling wires or fuses) in Concord (home of Nascar / Lowes speedway etc.) what a blast. The JGC was a hit..cat back & Volant producing 368 all wheel drive hp. Looks like an electronic hickup on the 2nd dyno sheet. Yes, I am getting a baseline for some fun stuff in the next few months.
Bill


I take it "djwhp, and "djwt",meens some kind of a superflow dyno correction to give "Dyno jet HP"?

Marshallout
03-26-2007, 03:39 PM
Vig 3200 whats the web and how much?

Untouchable
03-26-2007, 04:00 PM
bill, what were you seeing before the volant/catback . these seem to be ,my first plunges.

GotStroke?
03-26-2007, 04:09 PM
Fun, hmmm, yeah maybe. Funny, a year from now we will look back and see how far we have taken these things.

Just got off the 4 WD dyno (no pulling wires or fuses) in Concord (home of Nascar / Lowes speedway etc.) what a blast. The JGC was a hit..cat back & Volant producing 368 all wheel drive hp. Looks like an electronic hickup on the 2nd dyno sheet. Yes, I am getting a baseline for some fun stuff in the next few months.
Bill

Looks like a solid baseline, and some nice numbers. Don't forget to credit the T-stat;)

BuilderBill
03-26-2007, 04:21 PM
I take it "djwhp, and "djwt",meens some kind of a superflow dyno correction to give "Dyno jet HP"? Matt,
Yes, the runs were converted and corrected to standard pressure (STP). That way theoretically at least, across the country, we should be able to compare dyno numbers with each other. Here is the dyno info...hope it what you needed. I was strictly setting up a "before" baseline for my needs.

SuperFlow AutoDyn 880 AWD
* 1500+ HP (traction limited)
* 200mph top speed
* Dual axle with four 42" diameter roller drums
* Direct drive dual eddy-current absorbers
* Front & rear rollers are connected, accommodates modern vehicles with speed, traction, and ABS sensors
* Independently measure torque for each roll set (front/rear power split)
* AWD Wheel bases from 92" to 118"
* Longer 2WD vehicles can run using only the drive axle
* Track widths from 40" inner to 84" outer

FastMatt
03-27-2007, 10:44 AM
I'm sorry to read this but not surprised. The stock cam is a beautiful grind, lots of duration and runs so smooth in a street engine. The heads don't help or the headers. (not only my opinion only but some serious Mopar Gurus that have tested some of these parts) They have installed the stock 6.1 Hemi cam in a 5.7 Hemi and made big gains. No ported 6.1 Hemi head will add anything to a drag strip run because of its port profile that comes alive near the red line or at the tranny's shift points. Your choice though to install whatever parts you desire. I'm all for performance but only using proven parts based on solid tuning principals. I'm no fan of Comp Cams as they cost me thousands of dollars on my Turbo Buick's Engine and others that went flat and filled the engine with metal shavings, several vendors went bankrupt over their cams. I've posted why the 6.1 Hemi head is the wrong head on this engine due to the port shapes and proven on the flow bench, sluggish port velocity on the intake side. To each his own though, and my saying; "Whatever Turns Your Crank". Good Tuning. Gene

12.2@109.9mph

I wonder if you will ever grow tired of eating crow?

bevsjeepsrt8
03-27-2007, 11:19 AM
That's the thing, I'd rather go truetrac myself but I'm not sure that's 8.9" either.

They responded to my email and they don't make an application for it. They said the rear in ours in different than the other Dana 44's.

GotStroke?
03-27-2007, 11:20 AM
They responded to my email and they don't make an application for it. They said the rear in ours in different than the other Dana 44's.


Thanks for checking Mark. One day, one day...

BDNJ
03-27-2007, 11:23 AM
They responded to my email and they don't make an application for it. They said the rear in ours in different than the other Dana 44's.


Hey what about the an air-locker? My shop hasn't gotten back to me yet. And will a Detroit in the rear help enough so the front won't spin?

Brendan

bevsjeepsrt8
03-27-2007, 11:36 AM
Hey what about the an air-locker? My shop hasn't gotten back to me yet. And will a Detroit in the rear help enough so the front won't spin?

Brendan

I just wrote to ARB. I'll let you know what they say. I think a posi in the rear should do the trick.

BDNJ
03-27-2007, 11:37 AM
Thanks. We need this badly!

GotStroke?
03-27-2007, 11:39 AM
I think a locker of any sort will make the computer go nuts.

bevsjeepsrt8
03-27-2007, 11:47 AM
I think a locker of any sort will make the computer go nuts.

You're probably right. I think Nitto is coming out with 20" DR's soon. Maybe those will be enough...Mount two of them on the right side???

GotStroke?
03-27-2007, 11:58 AM
You're probably right. I think Nitto is coming out with 20" DR's soon. Maybe those will be enough...Mount two of them on the right side???

LMAO. That or rip everything electrical out, run FAST DFI, and a pair of spools.

bevsjeepsrt8
03-27-2007, 03:14 PM
LMAO. That or rip everything electrical out, run FAST DFI, and a pair of spools.

Man the SH*T we gotta do to get a little traction:D LOL

BuilderBill
03-27-2007, 03:33 PM
You're probably right. I think Nitto is coming out with 20" DR's soon. Maybe those will be enough...Mount two of them on the right side???
Actually it would work with one on the left front and one on the right rear. The same tires that spin when you pull the pink fuse. LOL.
Bill

bevsjeepsrt8
03-28-2007, 10:34 AM
Hey what about the an air-locker? My shop hasn't gotten back to me yet. And will a Detroit in the rear help enough so the front won't spin?

Brendan

No luck with this either, heres what the tech said.


The SRT8 has what’s called a D44 HD in it… it has a monster pinion in it that doesn’t allow for the fitment of our RD117 locker.

Sorry, but you’re not going to find any aftermarket differential for it at this time.

A tech from NittoTires wrote back to me and said they do plan on making 20"DR's. He asked me what size was I was interested in. I was thinking the same size as the stock tires. What do you Guys think?

BDNJ
03-28-2007, 10:40 AM
No luck with this either, heres what the tech said.


The SRT8 has what’s called a D44 HD in it… it has a monster pinion in it that doesn’t allow for the fitment of our RD117 locker.

Sorry, but you’re not going to find any aftermarket differential for it at this time.




Damn......what about the Overlander's D44?

gut2727
03-28-2007, 11:02 AM
Damn......what about the Overlander's D44?


Lets hope for something - its needed...

I have the DR heads, 273 Cam, kooks, mopar, volant, bg, and 2800 converter and the truck is an ANIMAL!!!

Sorry to hear your woes Grip! Hang in there... mine was a different vehicle once the PCM adjusted... So bad that traction is a huge issue!!

Maybe your right Stroke - spools all the way!!!

GotStroke?
03-28-2007, 11:27 AM
No luck with this either, heres what the tech said.


The SRT8 has what’s called a D44 HD in it… it has a monster pinion in it that doesn’t allow for the fitment of our RD117 locker.

Sorry, but you’re not going to find any aftermarket differential for it at this time.

A tech from NittoTires wrote back to me and said they do plan on making 20"DR's. He asked me what size was I was interested in. I was thinking the same size as the stock tires. What do you Guys think?

Nitto's DRs are notoriously undersized. For instance, their 275/40/17" DRs fit like a normal 255. Their 315/17" DRs only need a 9" rim w/ no bulge.
Just tell them the size of the rim we're using, that should be sufficient.

392Stu
04-04-2007, 10:43 AM
Grip, so do you still feel the heat heads you took off were that bad? The 268 cam is a proven performer and the headdars are too. If the heat heads were the junk that you had been posting the guy that does them wouldn't be providing heads for numerous top Dodge and GM NASCAR teams and Warren/Kurt Johnson the last 2 years. The DA difference isn't enough to even cover the cam alone. I think something entirely different has been wrong from the start and you went around blaming the Heat heads.

Grip Grip
04-04-2007, 02:49 PM
Grip, so do you still feel the heat heads you took off were that bad? The 268 cam is a proven performer and the headdars are too. If the heat heads were the junk that you had been posting the guy that does them wouldn't be providing heads for numerous top Dodge and GM NASCAR teams and Warren/Kurt Johnson the last 2 years. The DA difference isn't enough to even cover the cam alone. I think something entirely different has been wrong from the start and you went around blaming the Heat heads.


I think the DR setup needs more than one 1/8 run to determine it's effectiveness. The 60' time alone was night and day from anything the Heat heads (albeit alone) had ever come close to.

I ran the Heat heads down the track at least 30 times so I know how they performed. The DR setup will be run again when I get a chance and I'll be sure to post the results.

What I'm most dubious of is the recent PCM flash (TSB) I got from DC. What's the point in conjecture--I'll post when I have something worth posting.

392Stu
04-04-2007, 03:49 PM
I hope you get my point though. The 268 cam is a proven, major torque gain over the 6.1 cam and a decent HP gain too. The headdars will be a gain everywhere. The cam and headdars alone should be a substancial performance increase. You went out of your way to trash the Heat heads after 1 time at the track. I do feel for you spending all that money for no gain. I guarntee you cost Heat (me) a ton more than you spent with your anti-Heat campaign but your the only one who did not see a decent gain with those heads. As of October, I'm no longer a partner in Heat Performance because, my opinion of Kelly is far worse than yours, even and I told Kelly he could take my half of the company and ruin it too. I appoligize for any BS that he may have told you. He has a real problem there, althogh, that doesn't effect the quality of the heads. I hope things work better with Matt than they did with Kelly and Heat. It's beginning to look like something else may be the problem though.

Grip Grip
04-04-2007, 07:53 PM
I hope you get my point though. The 268 cam is a proven, major torque gain over the 6.1 cam and a decent HP gain too. The headdars will be a gain everywhere. The cam and headdars alone should be a substancial performance increase. You went out of your way to trash the Heat heads after 1 time at the track. I do feel for you spending all that money for no gain. I guarntee you cost Heat (me) a ton more than you spent with your anti-Heat campaign but your the only one who did not see a decent gain with those heads. As of October, I'm no longer a partner in Heat Performance because, my opinion of Kelly is far worse than yours, even and I told Kelly he could take my half of the company and ruin it too. I appoligize for any BS that he may have told you. He has a real problem there, althogh, that doesn't effect the quality of the heads. I hope things work better with Matt than they did with Kelly and Heat. It's beginning to look like something else may be the problem though.


The one run at the track with the Heat heads was actually about TEN quarter mile runs that day--not one solo 8th mile quicky. Plus, I ran the Heat heads 20 or so more times after that within six months (for fun) with no signicant delvelopements.

I think it was Kelly that finally stated to me that maybe the Heat Heads were not a good match for the Jeep due to the sacrifice of port velocity for overall flow, and I really resented unknowingly being his R&D.

Anyway, I don't think I was ever ever really as pissed at Heat Performance as a company as I was personally at Kelly for his double talk and unprofessionalism.

In hind sight, I overreacted and if it affected you in any way I'm sorry. But truth be told, your much better off without him.

tommy25000
04-04-2007, 09:38 PM
grip grip the sims are on the way. & clear your box out

392Stu
04-04-2007, 10:05 PM
The one run at the track with the Heat heads was actually about TEN quarter mile runs that day--not one solo 8th mile quicky. Plus, I ran the Heat heads 20 or so more times after that within six months (for fun) with no signicant delvelopements.

I think it was Kelly that finally stated to me that maybe the Heat Heads were not a good match for the Jeep due to the sacrifice of port velocity for overall flow, and I really resented unknowingly being his R&D.

Anyway, I don't think I was ever ever really as pissed at Heat Performance as a company as I was personally at Kelly for his double talk and unprofessionalism.

In hind sight, I overreacted and if it affected you in any way I'm sorry. But truth be told, your much better off without him.

Yeh, I'm way better off without Kelly he was a much more shifty guy than I thought he was and he used me pretty bad and I was lucky to get out of that partnership when I did. As it stood I had to sell my vette to pay the bills he saddled me with but thats all over now.

I'm not sure whats going on with your jeep. All the mods you have done the heads, 268 cam, headdars should all help. I hear allot of talk about port velocity with 6.1 heads but it just that talk none of those people have done any A:B testing that I know of. I've done quite a bit and all the testing I've done shows the ported 6.1 heads make more torque than even the ported 5.7 head. We have a 6.1/ L 5.7 baised 5000 lb truck going 12.58 with 1.76 sixty foot times and 7.96 1/8 times with the comp 268 cam and those heads 440 lb-ft torque at the wheels so I know that package works. Have you logged the timing advance on one of your runs to see where it's at. It could be something as stupid as an over torqued knock sensor reading hyper sensitive and pulling a bunch of timing?

Grip Grip
04-04-2007, 11:00 PM
Yeh, I'm way better off without Kelly he was a much more shifty guy than I thought he was and he used me pretty bad and I was lucky to get out of that partnership when I did. As it stood I had to sell my vette to pay the bills he saddled me with but thats all over now.

I'm not sure whats going on with your jeep. All the mods you have done the heads, 268 cam, headdars should all help. I hear allot of talk about port velocity with 6.1 heads but it just that talk none of those people have done any A:B testing that I know of. I've done quite a bit and all the testing I've done shows the ported 6.1 heads make more torque than even the ported 5.7 head. We have a 6.1/ L 5.7 baised 5000 lb truck going 12.58 with 1.76 sixty foot times and 7.96 1/8 times with the comp 268 cam and those heads 440 lb-ft torque at the wheels so I know that package works. Have you logged the timing advance on one of your runs to see where it's at. It could be something as stupid as an over torqued knock sensor reading hyper sensitive and pulling a bunch of timing?


I really haven't had time to do much of anything lately due to work and family. I'm really in no big hurry since I know it makes big power, since Bevs has run low 12's with the combo.

I'm sure it's something the dealer screwed up. I've already located bolts on the radiator and shround that the dealer neglected to tighten, so I'm not puting anthing paste them. Hell, they may of gapped the plugs wrong or even left one out--jk. :D

I would like to have it dyno'd in the next couple weeks with the wide band and see what it does. I'll post the dyno sheets and maybe some of you professionals can help me make heads or tails of it.

Grip Grip
04-04-2007, 11:01 PM
grip grip the sims are on the way. & clear your box out

Thanks.

I'll delete some messages now.

hemicon
04-04-2007, 11:05 PM
Damn......what about the Overlander's D44?

Why not use the jeep Rubicon HD 44 air locker. This should be the same unit.
The 2007 JK Rubicon has the HD 44 and is a air locker.

GotStroke?
04-04-2007, 11:59 PM
Why not use the jeep Rubicon HD 44 air locker. This should be the same unit.
The 2007 JK Rubicon has the HD 44 and is a air locker.


Are there other diffs avaiable for the '07 Rubicon?

BDNJ
04-05-2007, 10:07 AM
Why not use the jeep Rubicon HD 44 air locker. This should be the same unit.
The 2007 JK Rubicon has the HD 44 and is a air locker.



Interesting! I will call my Chrysler guy later today. Thx.

392Stu
04-05-2007, 10:48 AM
I really haven't had time to do much of anything lately due to work and family. I'm really in no big hurry since I know it makes big power, since Bevs has run low 12's with the combo.

I'm sure it's something the dealer screwed up. I've already located bolts on the radiator and shround that the dealer neglected to tighten, so I'm not puting anthing paste them. Hell, they may of gapped the plugs wrong or even left one out--jk. :D

I would like to have it dyno'd in the next couple weeks with the wide band and see what it does. I'll post the dyno sheets and maybe some of you professionals can help me make heads or tails of it.

When you find out the problem I would like to know what it is. I bet it's something really stupid.

hemicon
04-05-2007, 10:12 PM
Are there other diffs avaiable for the '07 Rubicon?

Not yet, that I know of. The 2003-2006 TJ rubicon has a Dana 44 with posi/air locker. This is in the rear, open/air locker front. The early 03-06 model is a 30 spline axle with a "thick ring gear" the posi/air rear has been a problem for extreme use"higher hp, and over sized tires". The fronts have had no problems that I know of. 2007 Rubicon came out with the HD 44 "lager ring and pinion" and I think 35 spline axle. For you guys the 2007 model is your only chance right now, that I know of.

Kevin