Posted in the wrong place...

Hey. I did some mods to my srt8 recently: borla exhaust, diablo tune, springs, k&n intake. I was going to do headers, but was advised to skip that step and do the vortech supercharger. Does that sound right? I really don't know what's what and am going by what I'm told will get the most out of the truck. If I do skip the headers and do the supercharger, what else do I have to change?

Thanks

If your planning on getting a supercharger, I agree that you might as well skip the headers. Your next mod after the sc should probably be a Builder Bill transmission, since our transmissions don't like high horsepower.

What could be the problem if I don't change the transmission and how much does the change run?

What could be the problem if I don't change the transmission and how much does the change run?

The transmission might stand up to just the supercharger if you don't beat on it for a hobby, but the 600 HP zone is the threshold for it. I believe the BB tranny is 4K and I checked with a local dealer and was quoted $350 for the install.

Buy the headers and the Supercharger

i agree headers and supercharger and ur set

Buy the headers and the Supercharger

that sound like an awesome plan
get the flow out with the headers - let it breathe
squish the air coming in and add some good octane gas
stomp it and
hang the **** on
swap the tranny
build the bottom end
bump the boost
set the pavement on fire





o sorry please wake me i'm dreaming again :)

I hear centrifugals work best with headers unlike PD's.......

Paulie please check my most recent thread...
http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31942
Sorry for buttin in on your thread bro..seriously. As happy as you guys are w your vortech I know Im not where I should be..

What could be the problem if I don't change the transmission and how much does the change run?

http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29963&highlight=clutches

Here is an excellent thread with photos that speak to that very question and give you a good suggestion on one way to deal with it. Medic can speak to his "wear" level" which may admittedly be more aggressive than you, but this puts a visual to the type of set up you're looking at. Good luck.

Paul, you thinking that the flow versus back pressure is better suited for the centri versus p/d? I'd think that cam lift and duration would be a big factor along with header flow.

^^^^^^^more on that

WTF are you guys talking about? With any supercharger you NEED headers. You're jamming air in, it needs to be able to get out. Otherwise you end up with what is known as "boost stacking". Its pseudo boost. The blower is using boost to push the air out. No power to be had there, just higher pressures and more knock.

WTF are you guys talking about? With any supercharger you NEED headers. You're jamming air in, it needs to be able to get out. Otherwise you end up with what is known as "boost stacking". Its pseudo boost. The blower is using boost to push the air out. No power to be had there, just higher pressures and more knock.

How arrogant must you TRY to be? :rolleyes:

How about you enter blower conversations when u actually get a blower?$?$?$

Nobody cares what you have to say.....yes blower with headers is common sense....wow breath in breath out

I said they are more beneficial for Centris over PD's

I'm sure Gotstroked has tuned more cars then you have ever touched so you can ask him for more clarification since it's his opinion

Paul, Don't start. I have done more work with blowers then you ever will. I owned a GTP for almost 6 years. I really couldn't care less, what you or the yuppie have to say.

Paul, Don't start. I have done more work with blowers then you ever will. I owned a GTP for almost 6 years. I really couldn't care less, what you or the yuppie have to say.

And that's your problem.....u completely discredit everybodys views and opinions

How about adding your opinion without screaming out you're right and everybody else is wrong???

I never said I know more than anybody about blowers

It's ok you've earned ur reputation and people will never trust you

This has nothing to do with opinions. Its right and wrong. Simple fact is that a motor is an air pump. If you jam air in, you MUST allow it to get out. Thats just how it works. And we know the stock headers are garbage, since they cost us power even stock, so making a stupid statement like you don't need headers with a blower is completely and totally WRONG. Doesn't matter who says it, its just wrong.

This has nothing to do with opinions. Its right and wrong. Simple fact is that a motor is an air pump. If you jam air in, you MUST allow it to get out. Thats just how it works. And we know the stock headers are garbage, since they cost us power even stock, so making a stupid statement like you don't need headers with a blower is completely and totally WRONG. Doesn't matter who says it, its just wrong.

See once again same ol' thing......Mike is always right

Nobody said to not get headers.....where r u reading that? :confused:

Nobody said wrong so why r u competing to be right against nobody at all?

First two posts:
I was going to do headers, but was advised to skip that step and do the vortech supercharger.

If your planning on getting a supercharger, I agree that you might as well skip the headers.

First two posts:

Those opinions are right

Headers are NOT needed but beneficial

It's perfectly fine to go blower without headers.....

People will see awesome performance either way so it's not RIGHT or WRONG

Hell i didn't want to buy $1700 headers and pay for install and additional tuning so for some it's def not needed

Hell like above was said i'd go with tranny(like i did) as more of a necessity than headers anyday

Not having headers is probably costing you 50-60hp, minimum. With that much power on the line, I'd call them required. I guess to you that power isn't important, huh?

Drop $5 grand on a blower and get 100hp, then not spend another $1500 for 50 more? Doesn't make sense.

A transmission that shifts properly is more important than 50 more horsepower

I'd rather have 500hp with a built transmission than a 550hp with a stock transmission

Common sense in the Jeep Srt8 world Mike.....

Have you not read about any issues with our Jeeps???

Oh wait you don't have a blown Jeep that slips 2-3 with 500hp so you wouldn't know

A transmission is REQUIRED to run efficiently...without it you'll slip and it will slow you down and keep you from hitting 10's

Ask FLsrt8, Sarge, Keoni, and Winston

By necessary, he means to make it work, not make it work better. With the pia that a header install is on these jeeps, it isn't a bad idea to wait until you do the heads cam or motor to do headers and save on the install of both. I am figuring that we're all of the mindset that headers help the thing breathe and with the huff and puff of a s/c, it will help. With a baseline kit and some exhaust, which he already has, the difference won't be a deal killer.

vortech all the way to go

Keep in mind, not everyone has 10K to spend on mods, so it may not be an option to have everything. Yes, headers help, but so does a ported manifold, tb, heads, etc. So saying that someone is foolish not to do headers when they get a SC is like saying your stupid for not getting a SC when you got your headers, manifold, tb, etc.

When I had my SC'd 408 I added headers and picked up 20HP, not 50.

Do us all a favor Mike and take some prozac. ;)

WTF are you guys talking about? With any supercharger you NEED headers. You're jamming air in, it needs to be able to get out. Otherwise you end up with what is known as "boost stacking". Its pseudo boost. The blower is using boost to push the air out. No power to be had there, just higher pressures and more knock.

Incorrect.

Ive seen cars with manifolds make 1000+ at the wheels. Would headers help? Maybe.. do you absolutely have to have them, no.

Today's manifolds really arent that bad.

Incorrect.

Ive seen cars with manifolds make 1000+ at the wheels. Would headers help? Maybe.. do you absolutely have to have them, no.

Today's manifolds really arent that bad.

Agreed. The newer manifolds are more like Shorty headers then the old Log manifolds of the old days. I've seen a 5.7L Challenger with a Procharger that made 455rwhp on a Mustang dyno at 5.5lbs with a completely stock exhaust system. Look at the stock Jeeps out there with long tubes and show me one that is running faster the CentralTexHemi with his stock manifolds - Mod for Mod. Would they help a blower car? Probably a little, definetly not 50-60hp. Is it worth $1200? That is up to you. My personal opinion (which means Jack), Keep the stock manifolds and save for a trans and a good torque converter.

J

The Challengers manis are not the same as the Jeeps. The stock manis cost us 5hp right from the start compared to the cars. And the cars see 25-30hp gains from them. That means 30-35 for us. Forced induction multiplies gains, which is why I said 50-60hp at least.

The Challengers manis are not the same as the Jeeps. The stock manis cost us 5hp right from the start compared to the cars. And the cars see 25-30hp gains from them. That means 30-35 for us. Forced induction multiplies gains, which is why I said 50-60hp at least.

Why do you say "forced induction multiplies gains"? What exactly does that mean?

Why do you say "forced induction multiplies gains"? What exactly does that mean?

For something like headers on a supercharged car, the gains will be increased due to the air being forced in and needing a way out. The gains will be much larger then on an N/A car.

Arghhh, you guys are incorrigible!

:rofl:

So, say, I put a smaller pulley on an M90, and I have a FWI, my TOG's won't gain extra HP?

Mike, some of these guys need to smell the supercharger oil. :p

Mike, some of these guys need to smell the supercharger oil. :p

Right? Damn, bolt an aftermarket kit on a motor and you're an expert.

Come to our world, tear down and rebuild a few blowers, then maybe we'll listen. :p

For something like headers on a supercharged car, the gains will be increased due to the air being forced in and needing a way out. The gains will be much larger then on an N/A car.

I understand what you're saying, but I see it completely differently. As I said before, I only gained 20HP when adding headers to a supercharged 408, so I just don't buy it. That 20HP was over the old 360 exhaust manifolds, which were nothing near as efficient as those on the Jeep.

As for the 5HP difference between the LX and Jeep, I read somewhere that it was due to the center exhaust, not the exhaust manifold design.

^ Actually the SRT Techs and SRT Engineers said our manifolds were different (visually too!) which is the reason why we 'lost' the 5hp.

^ Actually the SRT Techs and SRT Engineers said our manifolds were different (visually too!) which is the reason why we 'lost' the 5hp.

Actually, the loss in HP was due to the exhaust pipes, not the manifold design. :)

Ok - so being a noob at this and not having the knowledge, but having the money and not taking it to the track that often (yet).....
what is the ideal setup based on what I've already got going.. and is there anyone from Montreal on this site?

A supercharger is the route to go if you want another 100+ HP to the wheels, especially if you go through vehicles a lot. Keep in mind, you can always pull the SC off when your tired of the Jeep and recover half of what you paid for it.

If you can settle for less power than that, go with heads/cam/manifold, but removal will not be practical if you decide to sell.

If you really want to spend, go with a complete longblock 426 or 440, but once again you will probably not recover any of the money spent if you decide to sell the Jeep.

Actually, the loss in HP was due to the exhaust pipes, not the manifold design. :)

I'd like to see the source of that info. ;)

I SWEAR it was the headers, not the exhaust, that cost 5 HP, but I'm too lazy to search for it. Someone care enough to search and then get to say who's right?
:)

:lol: I know I'm right. The SRT Techs and SRT Engineers said so. But I'd like to see otherwise since I've seen the difference in exhaust manifolds between the LX and us. They are different part numbers too.

I remember hearing it also on one of the automotive cable programs when they test drove the Jeep. The claimed the "Gucci" exhaust cost the Jeep five HP over the LX.

^ :lol: Uh huh.

As for the SRT Engineers:

Q:
What is behind the 5hp loss on the Jeep compared to the other SRT8 cars, Is it due to the restrictive exhaust configuration is there another reason?

A:
The 5 hp delta is due to the packaging space of the exhaust manifolds, the engine bay is much tighter on the WK compared to some of the other SRT8's.....

Source:
http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showpost.php?p=143106&postcount=32

;)

Do you have any reputable sources? ;)

Do you have any reputable sources? ;)

Yes...

I remember hearing it also on one of the automotive cable programs...

:lol:

Yes...



:lol:

Sweet!!! Lol

:D

I picked up around 7-10RWHP across the board on my basically stock Jeep and wasted 3 nights and 10-14 hours. Mike, you are 100% correct in therory.The problem is, I often wonder if stock headers are the cork in the system.

I agree with many of the others, your better putting your money elsewhere before you waste the cash on headers.

BTW- Put the crack pipe down, no way Paulie or any basically stock vehicle F/I is going to pick up 50 HP with the addition of headers.

yeah get the headers open that thing up so it can breathe, I might be wrong but isnt a supercharger better for a stock engine becuase of the torque curve and wouldnt opening up the exhaust lower your overall boost pressure while increase your HP because it is less restrictive, I thought that it also lowers the stress on the engine slightly

Thanks for so many opinions... I wish they were all in line. I decided to skip the headers and the sc is on route. I was told it should be all good.

Thanks for so many opinions... I wish they were all in line. I decided to skip the headers and the sc is on route. I was told it should be all good.

IMO that was a very economically smart move. :)