Wandering Scot
07-08-2009, 09:05 PM
I installed my Vortech Supercharger on my Challenger this weekend.
This is a review of the installation process and my experiences with Vortech.
I'm posting this over here as well as at Challenger Talk because I also own a Jeep SRT8 and am considering installing a SC on it as well.
I also know that many of you are considering the same mod to your Jeeps so thought you might be interested with my experience with the Vortech kit.
Sunday July 5th:
Put car up on stands and removed the front wheels and splash pans:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC001.jpg
Removed the front fascia:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC002.jpg
I covered the fenders for protection. I used vinyl coated mattress covers I picked up at Wally World for $12.00 each.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC004.jpg
Supercharger partially installed and fitting up intake:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC005.jpg
Close up of the intake:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC008.jpg
Top view of partially installed unit:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC007.jpg
Pic of installed unit, prior to fascia reinstallation:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC009.jpg
Finished product:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC011.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC012.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC013.jpg
A bit about me; I've been turning wrenches on everything from cars to motorcycles, including some AMA and IDBA race motorcycles for the last 30 years.
I've installed 5 superchargers, everything from a Kenne Bell on a Jeep to a Paxton on an early Mustang, so I pretty much know my way around mechanical things.
On a scale of 1-10 I'd rate this kit a 7 in terms of difficulty of install.
My impression of the instructions:
First off, if you choose to install the kit yourself, throw away the black and white instructions they send with the kit and print out the instructions from their website in color. The pics are vague to begin with but when viewed in black and white the pics are pretty crappy.
Second, the instructions themselves leave a lot to be desired:
There's not a single torque spec anywhere in the manual.
The instructions ASSUME you're intimately familiar with the car you're working on.
If you're not, I highly suggest you invest in a service manual.
Third, be aware, if Vortech makes a running change during the course of their production, it WILL NOT be covered in the manual.
Case in point, my kit came with the new MSDS Fuel Pump Voltage Booster.
It does not require a relay as stated in the manual and the wiring is different than the schematic provided.
This could have easily been avoided by simply printing out a quick new page of instructions for that component and putting it in the MSDS box along with the product.
My impression of the kit:
The kit components included are fairly comprehensive, and reasonably well thought out.
I was short a couple of items, namely the larger clamp for the SC intake boot, and a couple of 1/4" bolts and washers.
The biggest issue I had was with the Diablo they supplied.
Monday evening I finished the car up and tried to upload the tune before I reinstalled the fascia. Big problem!
The Predator they delivered was for a 2005 FORD!!
No problem I'm thinking, I'll just get hold of them tomorrow, e-mail them my stock tune from my original Predator and have them e-mail me their tune. Shamwow, no biggie.
Boy, was I wrong......
After several phone calls, I spoke with their tech staff.
No, they would not e-mail me the tune, as they were concerned about it's "security" and that it could possibly be given to "anyone" who might copy it....
However, they were willing to send me out a new Predator Next Day Air, but, to add insult to injury, they made me PAY for it. The charge to be refunded upon them receiving back the incorrect one.....
The tech also could not answer how much fluid the intercooler system held, nor whether the CAC bolted down or just "dangled there", resting against the top of the valve cover. (It does just dangle there, something I rectified by using HD 3M Scotch Lok to hold it in place), or even give me an accurate description of the Gilmer belt tension / deflection.
I finally spoke with the GM, Jamie, who refunded the charge on my card, but was still insistent that he would not e-mail me the tune.
Either these guys are ignorant of the fact that anyone with a CMR tuner can read / copy their tunes, or are unaware that once a tune is sent to an end user based on their VIN back up file that it can't be duplicated without the CMR software.
Moving along, while I was waiting for the Predator, I decided to prime the intercooler water pump and check the system..... Much to my disappointment, the weld on the "S" pipe they supplied was porous. It leaked like a sieve.:mad:
Once again, I called Jamie at Vortech. You know it's bad when I know their number from memory.
His reply, verbatim: "We don't manufacture that part, so we have no control over the quality of it, but I'll send you a new one."
I decided to take matters into my own hands at that point. I fabbed up and installed my own pipe.
I also reached out to BMC for help.
Mikey put me in touch with Johan at Diablo, and within 45 minutes of me sending him my back up file, he e-mailed me a copy of Vortech's canned tune.
HUGE props to 2 guys who although they had no vested interest in helping me, came through in a big way while the company that should have sat on their hands.
I received the Diablo today as promised, as well as the "S" pipe, although instead of sending me the requested Gates 90 degree intercooler water hose, they sent me the 90 degree INTAKE hose.
To say I'm less than impressed with the company and support is a gross understatement.
Now the review of the supercharger itself:
I'm still breaking it in a bit, but you can feel power immediately.
Throttle response is good whether just off idle or higher in the rpm range.
I'll post some performance data later once I do some testing.
As a business owner myself, and a former corporate service manager I'd like to offer some insight to Vortech:
Add torque specs to your manual.
Take clearer / larger pics.
Print the manual in color. For a $6000.00 plus system, a color manual isn't too much to ask for.
Add the information about closing plug gap at the front of the manual.
It’s mentioned to replace the plugs, but on the last page, AFTER the installation is complete.
Get rid of the cheap plastic hose clamps and replace them with high quality stainless items.
Not only are the supplied clamps cheesy, but they are difficult to work with in confined spaces.
Standardize your hardware. In this day and age to have a kit still using standard fasteners going on a metric car is 20th century thinking.
Double check your packing, things like not having a clamp or a couple of bolts are a minor annoyance.
Sending the wrong programmer is unforgivable.:grim:
Train your tech staff not just on the technical aspect of the systems, but in CUSTOMER SERVICE as well. Your GM could use a bit of that training too.:stickpoke:
So far, my overall impression is that it's a good product, sold by a company that is neither big on customer service, nor on technical detail / support, in terms of both their printed manual and their tech's knowledge of the product.
This is a review of the installation process and my experiences with Vortech.
I'm posting this over here as well as at Challenger Talk because I also own a Jeep SRT8 and am considering installing a SC on it as well.
I also know that many of you are considering the same mod to your Jeeps so thought you might be interested with my experience with the Vortech kit.
Sunday July 5th:
Put car up on stands and removed the front wheels and splash pans:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC001.jpg
Removed the front fascia:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC002.jpg
I covered the fenders for protection. I used vinyl coated mattress covers I picked up at Wally World for $12.00 each.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC004.jpg
Supercharger partially installed and fitting up intake:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC005.jpg
Close up of the intake:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC008.jpg
Top view of partially installed unit:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC007.jpg
Pic of installed unit, prior to fascia reinstallation:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC009.jpg
Finished product:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC011.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC012.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/pohart/ChallengerSC013.jpg
A bit about me; I've been turning wrenches on everything from cars to motorcycles, including some AMA and IDBA race motorcycles for the last 30 years.
I've installed 5 superchargers, everything from a Kenne Bell on a Jeep to a Paxton on an early Mustang, so I pretty much know my way around mechanical things.
On a scale of 1-10 I'd rate this kit a 7 in terms of difficulty of install.
My impression of the instructions:
First off, if you choose to install the kit yourself, throw away the black and white instructions they send with the kit and print out the instructions from their website in color. The pics are vague to begin with but when viewed in black and white the pics are pretty crappy.
Second, the instructions themselves leave a lot to be desired:
There's not a single torque spec anywhere in the manual.
The instructions ASSUME you're intimately familiar with the car you're working on.
If you're not, I highly suggest you invest in a service manual.
Third, be aware, if Vortech makes a running change during the course of their production, it WILL NOT be covered in the manual.
Case in point, my kit came with the new MSDS Fuel Pump Voltage Booster.
It does not require a relay as stated in the manual and the wiring is different than the schematic provided.
This could have easily been avoided by simply printing out a quick new page of instructions for that component and putting it in the MSDS box along with the product.
My impression of the kit:
The kit components included are fairly comprehensive, and reasonably well thought out.
I was short a couple of items, namely the larger clamp for the SC intake boot, and a couple of 1/4" bolts and washers.
The biggest issue I had was with the Diablo they supplied.
Monday evening I finished the car up and tried to upload the tune before I reinstalled the fascia. Big problem!
The Predator they delivered was for a 2005 FORD!!
No problem I'm thinking, I'll just get hold of them tomorrow, e-mail them my stock tune from my original Predator and have them e-mail me their tune. Shamwow, no biggie.
Boy, was I wrong......
After several phone calls, I spoke with their tech staff.
No, they would not e-mail me the tune, as they were concerned about it's "security" and that it could possibly be given to "anyone" who might copy it....
However, they were willing to send me out a new Predator Next Day Air, but, to add insult to injury, they made me PAY for it. The charge to be refunded upon them receiving back the incorrect one.....
The tech also could not answer how much fluid the intercooler system held, nor whether the CAC bolted down or just "dangled there", resting against the top of the valve cover. (It does just dangle there, something I rectified by using HD 3M Scotch Lok to hold it in place), or even give me an accurate description of the Gilmer belt tension / deflection.
I finally spoke with the GM, Jamie, who refunded the charge on my card, but was still insistent that he would not e-mail me the tune.
Either these guys are ignorant of the fact that anyone with a CMR tuner can read / copy their tunes, or are unaware that once a tune is sent to an end user based on their VIN back up file that it can't be duplicated without the CMR software.
Moving along, while I was waiting for the Predator, I decided to prime the intercooler water pump and check the system..... Much to my disappointment, the weld on the "S" pipe they supplied was porous. It leaked like a sieve.:mad:
Once again, I called Jamie at Vortech. You know it's bad when I know their number from memory.
His reply, verbatim: "We don't manufacture that part, so we have no control over the quality of it, but I'll send you a new one."
I decided to take matters into my own hands at that point. I fabbed up and installed my own pipe.
I also reached out to BMC for help.
Mikey put me in touch with Johan at Diablo, and within 45 minutes of me sending him my back up file, he e-mailed me a copy of Vortech's canned tune.
HUGE props to 2 guys who although they had no vested interest in helping me, came through in a big way while the company that should have sat on their hands.
I received the Diablo today as promised, as well as the "S" pipe, although instead of sending me the requested Gates 90 degree intercooler water hose, they sent me the 90 degree INTAKE hose.
To say I'm less than impressed with the company and support is a gross understatement.
Now the review of the supercharger itself:
I'm still breaking it in a bit, but you can feel power immediately.
Throttle response is good whether just off idle or higher in the rpm range.
I'll post some performance data later once I do some testing.
As a business owner myself, and a former corporate service manager I'd like to offer some insight to Vortech:
Add torque specs to your manual.
Take clearer / larger pics.
Print the manual in color. For a $6000.00 plus system, a color manual isn't too much to ask for.
Add the information about closing plug gap at the front of the manual.
It’s mentioned to replace the plugs, but on the last page, AFTER the installation is complete.
Get rid of the cheap plastic hose clamps and replace them with high quality stainless items.
Not only are the supplied clamps cheesy, but they are difficult to work with in confined spaces.
Standardize your hardware. In this day and age to have a kit still using standard fasteners going on a metric car is 20th century thinking.
Double check your packing, things like not having a clamp or a couple of bolts are a minor annoyance.
Sending the wrong programmer is unforgivable.:grim:
Train your tech staff not just on the technical aspect of the systems, but in CUSTOMER SERVICE as well. Your GM could use a bit of that training too.:stickpoke:
So far, my overall impression is that it's a good product, sold by a company that is neither big on customer service, nor on technical detail / support, in terms of both their printed manual and their tech's knowledge of the product.