GSM Midpipe - Anyone get this installed yet? [Archive] - Cherokee SRT8 Forum

: GSM Midpipe - Anyone get this installed yet?


recentrisk
10-24-2006, 11:33 AM
I have my supercharger and I ordered the kooks headers and the GSM midpipe.... I wanted to know if anyone has this installed yet?

I think they said it will make my check engine light come one because it removes the cats.

any info?

srtsplitty
10-24-2006, 11:16 PM
it will, until you install an o2 sim. i dont even know if anyone has any sims out yet.

srt8suv
10-25-2006, 05:56 PM
i would not recommend you installing a mid pipe without a sim for the check engine light. it has a side effect when the CEL comes up as a couple of tuner who i know have told me. put some race Cats on the mid pipe and save yourself the thing!

mabosc223
10-26-2006, 01:53 PM
i would not recommend you installing a mid pipe without a sim for the check engine light. it has a side effect when the CEL comes up as a couple of tuner who i know have told me. put some race Cats on the mid pipe and save yourself the thing!

GS Motorsports has an O2 Simulator that has been prooven to work for some time now. They have it on their company Jeep I believe. So check them out, I will be able to let you know soon as I am going to be doing that exact same combo.

srt8suv
10-27-2006, 05:20 PM
GS Motorsports has an O2 Simulator that has been prooven to work for some time now. They have it on their company Jeep I believe. So check them out, I will be able to let you know soon as I am going to be doing that exact same combo.

Bro,
I have called them last week and they said they are going to ship me one.

I called them Friday, (asking about shippin) and they said: "Ops.. we dont have it at the moment, its available for the LX platform only. sorry"

So basically, they dont have it. make sure when you call them you mention JEEP !!
:)

Black_SRT8
10-27-2006, 05:26 PM
Bro,
I have called them last week and they said they are going to ship me one.

I called them Friday, (asking about shippin) and they said: "Ops.. we dont have it at the moment, its available for the LX platform only. sorry"

So basically, they dont have it. make sure when you call them you mention JEEP !!
:)


Correct, the O2 SIM from GSM only works for LX models. People on the blue site have tried implementing them on the GC with no avail.

SRTJeep
11-01-2006, 07:59 AM
I wouldn't recommend doing this mod for reasons already stated. This isn't the best place to make any performance gains. MHO A PCM Re-Flash can far exceed exhaust mods. Timing and Fuel Map changes can really help but these are dependant on Atmospheric Conditions therefore a tuneable PCM is the ticket. (tune to the day) Several Companies are looking into designing one for the 6.1 Hemi? When? Be Patient? The JGC is unique as stated as it has several other computers it is linked to so changing one doesn't always work. I'm trying to work with some PCM Software engs to find the answer? Another Opinion of Course. TC Gene

srt8suv
11-01-2006, 08:56 AM
Gene,
I agree with you 100%.
please keep us posted

SI_G35Coupe
11-01-2006, 10:06 AM
i'm no automotive engineer, but here's my opinion on the matter

taking this mod from a HP per dollar standpoint, maybe a high flow midpipe will only net you 5-10hp on an NA car, which IMO would not make sense to goto all this trouble. HOWEVER, once you start running out of airflow mods to do, the midpipe might be a good move.

airflow mods tend to be hindered by the weakest link (the worst flowing component in the chain). for somebody that has intake, head work, headers, and catback exhaust, this might be the last piece of the puzzle to maximize their intake/exhaust flow. followed up by a good tune from a tuner module like you mentioned (damn i wish it were that easy on Japanese cars) should give really nice gains i would think.

i certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me, and i will admit that 90% of my experience in these matters is related to late model Nissan/Infiniti products (where squeezing every little bit of whp out of a high compression naturally aspirated V6 was a challenge... but i know what it's like to be hindered by a mettlesome computer)

El Jefe
11-01-2006, 11:39 AM
I dont know how the mid pipe sounds on the Jeep but on any Mustang the Mid pipe changes the entire sound of the exhaust. A Jeep with headers, mid pipe and mufflers would make anyone jump out of their seat! And all you need to get rid of that check engine light is about $10 in parts from Radioshack.

srt8suv
11-01-2006, 12:13 PM
I dont know how the mid pipe sounds on the Jeep but And all you need to get rid of that check engine light is about $10 in parts from Radioshack.

if you can make it, I will pay $100 not $10..

No one has it till today, there is NO such Simulator for the JEEP yet!

El Jefe
11-01-2006, 12:40 PM
I know people have made them for Mustang mid pipes easily. Ill see if it can be done for the Jeep

Fastest H-Town Realtor
11-01-2006, 12:42 PM
I dont know how the mid pipe sounds on the Jeep but on any Mustang the Mid pipe changes the entire sound of the exhaust. A Jeep with headers, mid pipe and mufflers would make anyone jump out of their seat! And all you need to get rid of that check engine light is about $10 in parts from Radioshack.

If this is true, then you need to roll down to the Shack and turn 100 bux into 1K. 10 kits and your a happy man. Hell, I'll lend you the 100 bux to do it with.

You obviously know something that Kooks, GSM and the likes don't.

El Jefe
11-01-2006, 01:13 PM
Well I dont see how it could be that different. The MIL(malfunction indicator light) light on any car does the same thing. When you take the cats off the mid pipe it will come on. The MIL eliminators for Mustangs delete the light.

This company makes MIL's for any Ford vehicle 96+

http://www.mileliminators.com/

This company has Jeep listen on their site:

http://www.mileliminatorsonline.com/

This ebay ad says its Universal and Jeep is on the list...For the price you might want to grab on of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/UNIVERSAL-MIL-ELIMINATOR-O2-Bypass-SENSOR-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ230044982671QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3 3609QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.ca/MIL-ELIMINATORS-O2-BYPASS-SIMULATOR-96-06-VEH_W0QQitemZ110050699269QQihZ001QQcategoryZ42610Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

unclgreggy
11-01-2006, 07:04 PM
The secondary O2 sensors in this car supposedly affect fuel trim. That would explain many of the problems people are having (ie. the ECU going to another map). turning off the light or masking it with the above fixes is not going to cut it. I cannot say enough how pissed I am at kooks with this situation. BTW, Kook's response to my mechanic was "GS is working on sims." Are you serious????? This is there response???? Sims won't fix the problems I just mentioned.

Black_SRT8
11-01-2006, 07:34 PM
The blue site has been working on this problem for the past two months. The SIM's work for LX models, but not for the SRT8. Hitherto today, nobody has found a solution to the MIL/CEL problem, and some extremely smart people are working on the issue (Inferno, SGT, etc..). If you find a solution, make sure to share.

Fastest H-Town Realtor
11-01-2006, 08:52 PM
This continuation of issue is very disconcerning to me. It seems that the SRTGC is a unique beast and performance vendors will need to acknowledge this before pumping out parts. The prob is that with a production run of limited numbers, the idea of individual development does not look profitable. Hence the generic parts being built and the problematic tuning issues arriving with said parts. Although Kooks had no way to know the GC headers would perform differently than other SRT-8 vehicles, and may have never had this type issue before, it by no way excuses their liability/ responsibility to the buyers of said twisty pipes. Nothing less than either a full on solution or full refund is acceptable. Period.

srt8suv
11-02-2006, 05:13 AM
if the issue is only headers and kooks, its about $1500, but what about those who paid about $7500 for supercharger and having issues too? ;)

recentrisk
11-02-2006, 06:59 AM
if the issue is only headers and kooks, its about $1500, but what about those who paid about $7500 for supercharger and having issues too? ;)

I did BOTH and they are sitting waiting to get installed!!! =( What is GSM return policy?

ronald mcglothlin
11-02-2006, 10:22 AM
Yes lets be all doom and gloom and therefor do nothing. After all that is the safe thing to do. With that type of thinking nothing would ever be improved. Being careful is in order and your right but if we all just throw our hands up and say there is not enough of our Jeeps to make a go of it we just as well sell them and forget it. No one to be a guinea pig but there wood be no progress if no one tries anything new.

Hows2nd
11-02-2006, 11:41 AM
The blue site has been working on this problem for the past two months. The SIM's work for LX models, but not for the SRT8. Hitherto today, nobody has found a solution to the MIL/CEL problem, and some extremely smart people are working on the issue (Inferno, SGT, etc..). If you find a solution, make sure to share.

I will be installing my LT's with the Off-road mid-pipes next Friday with the understanding that the CEL light will come on. I have been in contact with GSM for a while (ordered a sims box a few weeks ago and found out from Sarge that it wasn’t doing the job so I sent it back) Scott is supposedly working on the fix. As for the sims boxs not working on the other SRT8 models...there are several guys running the sims without the light. Until we can turn the rear 02's off it will keep coming back on, with the rear 02's off, no CEL & no adverse effects on performance as the ECM just takes the front two...from what I’ve read the CEL doesn’t hurt performance.

This was Posted by George @ Kooks on the Blue site:

First off great write up stanko. We designed the headers. Not the PCM. We have been working with many others companies to solve the problem. Different 02 ext lengths, different 02 locations, even different 02's custom made for us. The car we did the prototype on was here then gone to Texas for all the pant work so on and so on. I drove the car to the dyno and back no codes. Then we put them on our dads car 8000 miles later no problem that was with the non fowler plugs. These were some of the first cars of the production line so who know's if they changed the pcm programing. Regardless we have been working with Diablo sport now for some time and we are very close to not only correcting the problem but giving all you modding nuts the chance to finally custom tune these cars. So be patient. As for the cel it does not change the drivability of the car nor does it change the fuel curve. It is for emissions reg's only. I hope this help's everyone out. And like they said not all cars are throwing the light. But all the cats are made the same.

Fastest H-Town Realtor
11-02-2006, 11:42 AM
Yes lets be all doom and gloom and therefor do nothing. After all that is the safe thing to do. With that type of thinking nothing would ever be improved. Being careful is in order and your right but if we all just throw our hands up and say there is not enough of our Jeeps to make a go of it we just as well sell them and forget it. No one to be a guinea pig but there wood be no progress if no one tries anything new.

So you should step up and lend your vehicle to trial fitting of these upcoming parts. Go ahead and pay the 1500 or 6K for said parts, only to find that the makers didn't test the parts and work out the bugs. Drive your ginea pig Limp Moded SUV around while no one take accountability. Then come here and smile while you tell the board that even though it runs like crap and no support is offered, your the happiest GC owner since the first one rolled off the line.

At that point, you may want to stop sucking the helium out of balloons. And remember that until you plunk down any type of monies for said parts, your a spectator. Just like I am. It isn't your cash thats been used for development parts. So its way easy for you to make a short sighted comment, like the one quoted above.

unclgreggy
11-02-2006, 01:22 PM
I have the headers. Let me warn anyone putting these things on. Mine are coming off. The CEL light is not just a "light" they make problems for the jeep. You are forwarned!!!!!!!!!!

srt8suv
11-02-2006, 02:15 PM
I have the headers. Let me warn anyone putting these things on. Mine are coming off. The CEL light is not just a "light" they make problems for the jeep. You are forwarned!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with.

Guys,
for who doesnt believe if CEL hurts performance, GO ahead and try it.
I have tried it myself, and I saw what it does, IT DOES hurt more than what a straight pipe will give you.

If you are reading Turbo Magazine, there was a full article about that and how much HP you will gain/lose if you would take off the Cats.. guess what?
OR you know, i wont post it here, you guys go and read it:p

i was kidding, the diffrerence in performance was 2 or 3HP (Cats On vs. Cats Off).

mabosc223
11-02-2006, 02:54 PM
I agree with.

Guys,
for who doesnt believe if CEL hurts performance, GO ahead and try it.
I have tried it myself, and I saw what it does, IT DOES hurt more than what a straight pipe will give you.

If you are reading Turbo Magazine, there was a full article about that and how much HP you will gain/lose if you would take off the Cats.. guess what?
OR you know, i wont post it here, you guys go and read it:p

i was kidding, the diffrerence in performance was 2 or 3HP (Cats On vs. Cats Off).

Bastard :D

Hows2nd
11-02-2006, 03:03 PM
I agree with.

Guys,
for who doesnt believe if CEL hurts performance, GO ahead and try it.
I have tried it myself, and I saw what it does, IT DOES hurt more than what a straight pipe will give you.

If you are reading Turbo Magazine, there was a full article about that and how much HP you will gain/lose if you would take off the Cats.. guess what?
OR you know, i wont post it here, you guys go and read it:p

i was kidding, the diffrerence in performance was 2 or 3HP (Cats On vs. Cats Off).

Are you talking about the mid-pipes or the headers? If your talking mid-pipes I went with the off-road pipes because I'm going to be running a custom nitrous set up and didnt see the point in destroying the new cats (I'm not going to run them because I think they are going to give me any extra gains.)

Hows2nd
11-02-2006, 03:05 PM
I have the headers. Let me warn anyone putting these things on. Mine are coming off. The CEL light is not just a "light" they make problems for the jeep. You are forwarned!!!!!!!!!!

What kind of issues are you having? Do you know what codes you are throwing?

Fastest H-Town Realtor
11-02-2006, 03:09 PM
I have the headers. Let me warn anyone putting these things on. Mine are coming off. The CEL light is not just a "light" they make problems for the jeep. You are forwarned!!!!!!!!!!


I smell discounted headers on Ebay soon... :p

ronald mcglothlin
11-02-2006, 03:14 PM
So you should step up and lend your vehicle to trial fitting of these upcoming parts. Go ahead and pay the 1500 or 6K for said parts, only to find that the makers didn't test the parts and work out the bugs. Drive your ginea pig Limp Moded SUV around while no one take accountability. Then come here and smile while you tell the board that even though it runs like crap and no support is offered, your the happiest GC owner since the first one rolled off the line.

At that point, you may want to stop sucking the helium out of balloons. And remember that until you plunk down any type of monies for said parts, your a spectator. Just like I am. It isn't your cash thats been used for development parts. So its way easy for you to make a short sighted comment, like the one quoted above.
Ok again as I stated before no one should be the guinea pig but nothing happens if someone does not try things out. We should be wise enough to make sure that the proof is there to say what works and what does not. Programing will have to be done for different things to work and if we are just going to put things on and expect that every thing is going to come together on its own. Well good luck the computer is as important as, or more so than anything else we can do but these part headers intakes etc. do work . We would just like to bolt things on and it will just work like magic what I here is it does not work that way not a big surprise at least to me. I really hope that someone will do the computer work as well as the hardware so everything can come together this thing could and should be even more of a monster. The computer is the reason that we make more power will less cubes than the old 426 it all has to work together or it wont work at all.

unclgreggy
11-02-2006, 10:12 PM
Talked to GS today. They said the Sim box is ready. AND that it would not merely Hide the light. I still am unsure if the fuel trim will be affected. I won't hold my breath. what I can't believe is that people are still willing to buy these piece of crap headers.

srt8suv
11-03-2006, 04:14 AM
Are you talking about the mid-pipes or the headers? If your talking mid-pipes I went with the off-road pipes because I'm going to be running a custom nitrous set up and didnt see the point in destroying the new cats (I'm not going to run them because I think they are going to give me any extra gains.)

Yes I was talking about Mid-pipes.

And, am not saying that the Cats will give you any extra gain, I am saying that if you remove them and the CEL is on, then you are loosing some there.
Thats was my point.:)
Recent Automobiles have the best Cats for the best performance and emissions, and thats why, you dont see much gains in HP when you remove the Cats.

donjendry
08-01-2007, 01:33 PM
Guys, i am new at this forum, did my own simulator, i am still working on improving the signal sent to the PCM...

i am working on a solution for the SRT8 high flow cats, up until now, I got the SEL off for about 20 days. but i got p0420.


Jendry Ventura, From Dominican Republic. David Ortiz home country....