I wasn't aware of this before last week but a few phone calls and PM's looking for answers from folks regarding tuning and the side effects thereof have got me wondering........ so now I am keeping a running tab of broken drivetrain parts.
For those of you I have spoken with over the last week I don't need a PM or call. For those of you that have blown engines, transmissions, transfercases shoot me a PM with the particulars.

Thanks

Jeff

well 7 out of 8 pistons in BJB's truck...

well 7 out of 8 pistons in BJB's truck...

Yea but was that because of the tuner or not?? I can't remember if that was before the tuner or not?

I have a running total of 14 engines so far from Jeeps and LX's. BJB's makes 15 total. Cool thanks.

BTW BJB beat me I only took out 6 pistons................

Were these forced induction motors, N2O, or N/A?
Is it a particular tuner or canned tune ones?
I would like to get a tune for my truck in the spring but am now wondering if it'll be worth it?

i believe it was less than a week or so after the diablo.. take your guess.. haha

...I think BLOWN wants the stories and set-ups for all....for data base compilation, and comparisons?

To further "our" knowledge as a whole in regards to dos & don'ts, and where
the limits are in relation to the different parts and hell we put them through.

Were these forced induction motors, N2O, or N/A?

Stock and snail blown

Is it a particular tuner or canned tune ones?

Old School back in Michigan, and canned


I would like to get a tune for my truck in the spring but am now wondering if it'll be worth it?

You pays ya money and you takes ya chances :)

Thanks Again All

J

...I think BLOWN wants the stories and set-ups for all....for data base compilation, and comparisons?

To further "our" knowledge as a whole in regards to dos & don'ts, and where
the limits are in relation to the different parts and hell we put them through.

The stories are secondary. The do's and don'ts are a very good place to reference what to do/not do.

The previous blown engines were just growing pains of a potent tool without much support information from the manufacturer.

Right now I have a couple people trying to figure out why they need new transmissions and transfer cases. :confused::confused:

J

hmmmmmmmm. I'm about to buy a tune too....

anyone break anything running the canned b&g?

That was probably going to be my next question.

anyone break anything running the canned b&g?


so far my B&G Stage II CMR tune has been working like a charm. then again i haven't done too much to alter the original tune Dave sent, not sure what others are doing?

Maybe we could get a "broken drivetrain parts" sticky for the board.

Well alot of the LX guys were playing with spark advance and Knock sensors and in some cases using canned tunes on Heads and cam cars.

Canned tunes for bolt ons = OK

Canned tunes for EVery bolt on = Marginal ( I had Headers, High Flow Cats, Cat Back, CAI, Plugs, Troque COnverter etc ) and I was lean 13.2 - 13.5 on the 93 CAI Tune on my RT

Heads + Cam = CMR peroid

Also dont turn off the KS and dont think that because your old big block used 38* of timing these new motors need that. These need a max of around 27-28*, these heads work very very well and dont need a lot of timing,

The ring lands in these motors sucks, 5mm is not enough in an SRT and 3mm in the RT is even worse.

As to Transfer cases, I dont know a lot about that, but a Magnum with an AWD RT w/ a 392 blew up a transfer case on a hard leave at the track.

-Robert

Right now I have 3 blown transmissions with BG tunes.
2 transfer cases.
Details to follow.


J

Right now I have 3 blown transmissions with BG tunes.
2 transfer cases.
Details to follow.


J
What the hell is going on????
Is the Torque management totally deleted?
A confused engine / transmission .....not knowing when to shift?

You are killing us!:D
Bill

My B&G tune. I have lost all wheel drive. Engine pulls to 70 in under 2 minute. I can cruise with my foot off the gas and the car continues to pull. When it shifts into third, it rev's to 6k before shifting. It will not down shift when in drive. You must do it manually and even then, it will not down shift all the time. When coming to a stop, It will not rev down below 2000 until 5 to 10 sec after stopping. Called Dave at B & G and he said his tune does not affect the trans at all. Replaced the PCM with my spare, and all the problems went away.

I dont think its any secret that the PCM writes to the TCM. Anyone who denies this might tell you the sky isn't blue.

I dont think its any secret that the PCM writes to the TCM. Anyone who denies this might tell you the sky isn't blue.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^AGREE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bill;)

Winston, Your side molding looks great!

What the hell is going on????
Is the Torque management totally deleted?
A confused engine / transmission .....not knowing when to shift?

You are killing us!:D
Bill

Bill
I don't know whats going on, one question I have is has anyone had any problems BEFORE the little blue box came out?? :confused:

i'm getting close to having all the bolt-ons and was considering what tune to go with, however obviously i'm sticking with the stock tune for now until all this bull**** is resolved.

I have not had any real issues running the B&GII....Except during the 300 mile learning curve..slight part throttle pinging..occasional P0300 code..shifting pattern not real frim or precise..Now..The Bitc$ just runs hard and A/F's are dead on! Seems D.K. can open-up the learning capabilities quite a bit..when you need it!

GC

Soooo, i guess i'm going to wait on the tune until a few things are straightend out.
Sorry if this question has already been asked but is there a way aroung the "blue box"?
Meaning another safer means of tuning or tuner?

The "blue box" is the Diablo handheld,..A B&GII is a PCM flash or can be flashed into a handheld. The culprit that is causing issues is the diablo canned tunes with head/cam cars..and of cousre the end user for not knowing what their doing!

GC

Sounds like the the B&G II pcm flash may be the safest bet for now.?
So its the Diablo canned tunes and the end user huh?

The "blue box" is the Diablo handheld,..A B&GII is a PCM flash or can be flashed into a handheld. The culprit that is causing issues is the diablo canned tunes with head/cam cars..and of cousre the end user for not knowing what their doing!

GC

GC it's NOT the blue box.



J

Don't discount SCT, its not a flash, its just plain written into the PCM tables, with control of nearly every parameter...

at least this is what I'm told.


Winston, Your side molding looks great!

Holy off topic Batman, lol, thanks Chris, looking forward to lining up next to the 426 monster!

GC it's NOT the blue box.



J

Oh...Must be that other thingie!!:D

GC

Soooo let me get this straight the only cars that have had damage are the ones with heads/cam running Diablo canned tunes?

Has anyone with boltons had a major issue with a driveline part?

Just want to make sure it's clear for everyone so no one gets the wrong idea about a product/s.

no problems with my B&G stage II with my minor mods...

Who has blown transmissions?? PM me if you would like to remain unnamed please.

if anyone has blown their transmissions, speak up, fer chriiist sake

help the forum members out here

if anyone has blown their transmissions, speak up, fer chriiist sake

help the forum members out here


Mine tanked a few weeks back. I will be up and running soon with a Renntech modified transmission. I shipped my Jeep from here in Chicago to the guys over at HHP in Newark Delaware to try to figure out what happened. I'm thinking it was either too much power (seems unlikely) or the tune had something to do with it.

Sounds like the the B&G II pcm flash may be the safest bet for now.?
So its the Diablo canned tunes and the end user huh?

From what I have heard, the B&G is not 100% safe either.

Brian

The more information here the better, if tunes are causing these issues we need to find out. There are a lot of people out there running canned and CMR tunes.

If there are any other issues tell us what happened. You dont have to name names but the issues that where caused would be helpful.

The more information here the better, if tunes are causing these issues we need to find out. There are a lot of people out there running canned and CMR tunes.

If there are any other issues tell us what happened. You dont have to name names but the issues that where caused would be helpful.
Blown7....
Need your input!
How can a tune blow a transmission?;)
Bill

I'm all flippin confused now:confused:

So let me get this straight! People are running lean, having slower 1/4 times, blowning up parts of the drivetrain.
If you can't use a ****ty hand held tuner right, than stay stock! I wouldn't mess with that ****, I am going to wait for the big dogs like hp tuner software etc. Then you can get some real power.

If you drive hard, launch it etc, then your drivetain will break.
Proven fact....

When your tunning your tranny with diablo.
Only set the line pressure (shift firmness) up by one click, then your be good. This will weakin your tranny....

Mine tanked a few weeks back. I will be up and running soon with a Renntech modified transmission. I shipped my Jeep from here in Chicago to the guys over at HHP in Newark Delaware to try to figure out what happened. I'm thinking it was either too much power (seems unlikely) or the tune had something to do with it.


what mods do you have?

Mine tanked a few weeks back. I will be up and running soon with a Renntech modified transmission. I shipped my Jeep from here in Chicago to the guys over at HHP in Newark Delaware to try to figure out what happened. I'm thinking it was either too much power (seems unlikely) or the tune had something to do with it.
Anthony,
Any plans for the broken trans?:)
I would be interested in it.
Bill

The symptoms that lead up to my transmission failure were:

First I had an issue with a slight grinding sound coming from the transmission under full load at mid-high rpms. I sent the PCM to B&G and when I got it back the sound was gone but now the transmission would not shift when under heavy load (high rpm's) but instead the rpm's would just bounce like on a rev limiter. After 4 times of this happening my trans was toast.

what mods do you have?

Heads, cam, ported intake, and headers.

Anthony,
Any plans for the broken trans?:)
I would be interested in it.
Bill


It's getting a Renntech overhaul.

Heads, cam, ported intake, and headers.




It's getting a Renntech overhaul.
Ahhh, it still made a good core for them.
Bill

Ahhh, it still made a good core for them.
Bill

Would be interested to see if the price is the same.. might mean the replaced parts were the things that went. Hmm Bill any way to find info from RennTech?

Would be interested to see if the price is the same.. might mean the replaced parts were the things that went. Hmm Bill any way to find info from RennTech?
Renntech is VERY close lipped on the deal.
They would NOT break out the invoice for me.
Bill

Renntech is VERY close lipped on the deal.
They would NOT break out the invoice for me.
Bill

Us either.. but maybe we could find out if the replacement parts on his were the same or if they found new info. Worth a try :kiss:

Renntech is VERY close lipped on the deal.
They would NOT break out the invoice for me.
Bill



I'll respect their choice to stay quiet. I just want my beast back!

I'll respect their choice to stay quiet. I just want my beast back!

We just want to see if what they replaced in ours is wht broke in yours..

We just want to see if what they replaced in ours is wht broke in yours..


I wonder if they will tell me what they upgrade and what needs to be changed due to failure. Hopefully it was the crap that broke! Either way, I will likely be running a stock tune so that this expensive mishap won't happen again.

I wonder if they will tell me what they upgrade and what needs to be changed due to failure. Hopefully it was the crap that broke! Either way, I will likely be running a stock tune so that this expensive mishap won't happen again.
What do you think caused the problem?
Bill

Wow I've been away.
The other transmission was a person west of the big river, they wish to remain silent.

I had another PM on a tranny (3rd) that maybe on the way out, but no hard info yet.

I have been comparing the stock 07-08 PCM files and they aren't too much different. So if DK used a modified 2007 file it should be OK, however I can't say what the can bus signals are. Tony if you want you can send the PCM to me and I'll suck it dry and see what changes are made for 2008 vs 2007.

Jeff

What do you think caused the problem?
Bill

For now, I can only "point the finger" as I have no proof. Here's something to think about though....

I had heads, cam, headers, ported intake, stall, and tune done. When I got the truck back it was making a noise that sounded to be coming from either the transmission or transfer case at high rpm and at wot. This was not a random occurrence as it happened every time. I called HHP and they said to send the PCM for a reflash. I send it out and when I get it back I go for a drive and the sound that was consistent a few days ago is gone. The issue is that now the truck would not accelerate or shift properly while at wot. It would just bounce the limiter instead of accelerating or shifting. After this happened a few times I called Dave and he told me that his tuning has nothing to do with the transmission and that the problem was likely that my rig is too powerful. After about 6 times of the truck missing shifts my transmission tanked. I got the following codes out of it...

-GEAR 2 RATIO INCORRECT P0732

-INPUT TURBINE SPEED SPEED SENSOR A/B CORRELATION P2784

-GEAR RATIO INCORRECT P0730

-GEAR 5 RATIO INCORRECT P0735

What do you all think? Opinions are appreciated.

For now, I can only "point the finger" as I have no proof. Here's something to think about though....

I had heads, cam, headers, ported intake, stall, and tune done. When I got the truck back it was making a noise that sounded to be coming from either the transmission or transfer case at high rpm and at wot. This was not a random occurrence as it happened every time. I called HHP and they said to send the PCM for a reflash. I send it out and when I get it back I go for a drive and the sound that was consistent a few days ago is gone. The issue is that now the truck would not accelerate or shift properly while at wot. It would just bounce the limiter instead of accelerating or shifting. After this happened a few times I called Dave and he told me that his tuning has nothing to do with the transmission and that the problem was likely that my rig is too powerful. After about 6 times of the truck missing shifts my transmission tanked. I got the following codes out of it...

-GEAR 2 RATIO INCORRECT P0732

-INPUT TURBINE SPEED SPEED SENSOR A/B CORRELATION P2784

-GEAR RATIO INCORRECT P0730

-GEAR 5 RATIO INCORRECT P0735

What do you all think? Opinions are appreciated.

IMO, I think it's the stall converter..Maybe to much..Every electronic
calculation is based upon the 2200 stall...Torque input,rpm input and speed input mainly...You would not be the first to have weird reactions to the 2800-3200 stall in a Jeep. To bad it shelled a tranny!

GC

IMO, I think it's the stall converter..Maybe to much..Every electronic
calculation is based upon the 2200 stall...Torque input,rpm input and speed input mainly...You would not be the first to have weird reactions to the 2800-3200 stall in a Jeep. To bad it shelled a tranny!

GC
GC,
My 2600 is great, no problems.
You think that the 2600 may be the threshold????
Bill

IMO, I think it's the stall converter..Maybe to much..Every electronic
calculation is based upon the 2200 stall...Torque input,rpm input and speed input mainly...You would not be the first to have weird reactions to the 2800-3200 stall in a Jeep. To bad it shelled a tranny!

GC



Interesting. Maybe I'll go back to the stock converter. Anyone else have any input on this? Jeff?

Interesting. Maybe I'll go back to the stock converter. Anyone else have any input on this? Jeff?

My gut feeling (again no hard information) is that the stall speed is not a part of the shifting Algorithm, here's my thought process.

Input N1 speed (tranny input shaft) and N2 (output tranny speed) are used in the shifting Algorithm. I don't think a "Hard" 2200 stall RPM is part of the shifting stratagy, rather that transmission shifting is a function of engine RPM, Trans input N1, N2, load (percentage of throttle position to engine speed)and torque input (yes the TCM/PCM does figure engine torque output.
If a person has Star Mobile you can see the maximum output recording of the engine. Who needs to actually dyno ? I can figure horsepower and torque of my Jeep off of that information)

I myself have figures just under 400 ft lbs of torque as of now totally stock.:cool:

I just can't see 2200 or 2400 or any stall RPM figuring in to the stratagy as every converter has a "margin" of error

(IE just because I have a 2200 RPM stall doesn't mean it will stall at exactly 2200 RPM it could be 2279.7394 RPM How do you figure that?)

BTW the other trans was stock with a B&G tune,IMHO I think torque management VS RPM redline is screwed up.

BTW the other trans was stock with a B&G tune,IMHO I think torque management VS RPM redline is screwed up.

Ok, so the engine would hit the rev limiter (FULL TORQUE) 1st maybe and NOT have a chance to pull fuel and timing to limit the torque before the shift?:confused:
Bill

My gut feeling (again no hard information) is that the stall speed is not a part of the shifting Algorithm, here's my thought process.

Input N1 speed (tranny input shaft) and N2 (output tranny speed) are used in the shifting Algorithm. I don't think a "Hard" 2200 stall RPM is part of the shifting stratagy, rather that transmission shifting is a function of engine RPM, Trans input N1, N2, load (percentage of throttle position to engine speed)and torque input (yes the TCM/PCM does figure engine torque output.
If a person has Star Mobile you can see the maximum output recording of the engine. Who needs to actually dyno ? I can figure horsepower and torque of my Jeep off of that information)

I myself have figures just under 400 ft lbs of torque as of now totally stock.:cool:

I just can't see 2200 or 2400 or any stall RPM figuring in to the stratagy as every converter has a "margin" of error

(IE just because I have a 2200 RPM stall doesn't mean it will stall at exactly 2200 RPM it could be 2279.7394 RPM How do you figure that?)

BTW the other trans was stock with a B&G tune,IMHO I think torque management VS RPM redline is screwed up.

Interesting, I never said that it affects shift patterns..only that the calculations needed where affected...the inputs must have a direct relationship with how torque management is applied..Throw in a 3200 stall and those inputs are now skewed...rpms(engine and tranny),stall and speed are not within the magic #'s set in the TCM/PCM.Can this be affected by other means..certainly..Remove more TM than you should..I see it screwing up the rpm/speed calculation...will it hurt it as much..I don't know...I'm no expert within the TCM/PCM..by no means..but untill we can access the TCM and change some set values...2600 stall would be my limit!..NO DULL STICK INTENDED!

GC

Just a thought for those who have the knowledge to evaluate it: "How many of the failures were on vehicles(JGCs) that had been dynoed, at some point in time, in "2 wheel drive mode"?" Could the procedure of disabling/unplugging the transfer case be somehow connected to the failures?

For now, I can only "point the finger" as I have no proof. Here's something to think about though....

I had heads, cam, headers, ported intake, stall, and tune done. When I got the truck back it was making a noise that sounded to be coming from either the transmission or transfer case at high rpm and at wot. This was not a random occurrence as it happened every time. I called HHP and they said to send the PCM for a reflash. I send it out and when I get it back I go for a drive and the sound that was consistent a few days ago is gone. The issue is that now the truck would not accelerate or shift properly while at wot. It would just bounce the limiter instead of accelerating or shifting. After this happened a few times I called Dave and he told me that his tuning has nothing to do with the transmission and that the problem was likely that my rig is too powerful. After about 6 times of the truck missing shifts my transmission tanked. I got the following codes out of it...

-GEAR 2 RATIO INCORRECT P0732

-INPUT TURBINE SPEED SPEED SENSOR A/B CORRELATION P2784

-GEAR RATIO INCORRECT P0730

-GEAR 5 RATIO INCORRECT P0735

What do you all think? Opinions are appreciated.
Ok here is one theory:
Every one of the above codes has a commonality (per our shop manual):
LOW TRANSMISSION FLUIDThis could have EASILY happened on the converter swap.
It is so very critical to measure the fluid level accurately.
Our fluid has a HUGE expansion rate with temp, therefore the special dipstick that is calibrated per temperature & it MUST BE IN GEAR.
If the guys with dashhawks want to see how critical this is ....look at your transmission temp. in park and then put it in gear. BIG DIFFERENCE.
There is quite an involved procedure for checking your trans. fluid level.
BTW overfilling is not a good thing either.

Your noise at WOT & high rpm put more fluid up in the internals of the transmission and you began pushing "froth" in the NAG1.


Secondary theory and less likely:
GCulver IS correct:
The calculated turbine speed is greater than 300 RPM above threshold.
Yep, the high stall converter.
Problem with this theory:
Some of the guys run the higher stall without a problem.
It COULD set off codes P0730 (incorrect gear ratio) & P0732 (incorrect gear ratio in 2nd gear).
It should NOT set off the other codes.I guess I am back to the 1st theory.

Did your trans then go into limp mode????
Bill

I love when you fellas( you know who you are) are on top of sh!t around here.

i pulled pieces of piston and rings from BJBs mufflers today... i heard something rattling

It would be nice to think Anthony's issues where directlly related to low tranny fluid only(guess we will never know for sure)..although it does not help with the end result..Keep us informed if any issues arise with the built tranny!

GC

It would be nice to think Anthony's issues where directlly related to low tranny fluid only(guess we will never know for sure)..although it does not help with the end result..Keep us informed if any issues arise with the built tranny!

GC
That would be one way of knowing, if the problem was still there with the RennTech trans.

Anthony, make sure you have someone check the fluid level that knows how to do it!
Bill

The transmission should come out tomorrow. We'll see how much fluid comes out of it.

Sorry to hear about your rig Anthony. I had no idea. This thread is kinda freakin me out since I'm running it in two cars. Although, I only have simple bolt ons.

Sorry to hear about your rig Anthony. I had no idea. This thread is kinda freakin me out since I'm running it in two cars. Although, I only have simple bolt ons.
Andrew,
Why would you be worried?????
So far the NAG1 has held up better than I expected.
A few isolated incidents than seem to be caused by things other than raw power being applied.
Bill

Murphys law always seems to apply to me Bill lol, that's why.

My gut feeling (again no hard information) is that the stall speed is not a part of the shifting Algorithm, here's my thought process.

Input N1 speed (tranny input shaft) and N2 (output tranny speed) are used in the shifting Algorithm. I don't think a "Hard" 2200 stall RPM is part of the shifting stratagy, rather that transmission shifting is a function of engine RPM, Trans input N1, N2, load (percentage of throttle position to engine speed)and torque input (yes the TCM/PCM does figure engine torque output.
If a person has Star Mobile you can see the maximum output recording of the engine. Who needs to actually dyno ? I can figure horsepower and torque of my Jeep off of that information)

I myself have figures just under 400 ft lbs of torque as of now totally stock.:cool:

I just can't see 2200 or 2400 or any stall RPM figuring in to the stratagy as every converter has a "margin" of error

(IE just because I have a 2200 RPM stall doesn't mean it will stall at exactly 2200 RPM it could be 2279.7394 RPM How do you figure that?)

BTW the other trans was stock with a B&G tune,IMHO I think torque management VS RPM redline is screwed up.


Blown, I think you're on the right path here. The only way we're going to figure out why certain mods are affecting the transmission is to get neck deep in the PCM code. Its obvious to me, as to many others, that the PCM and TCM work in unison to control transmission AND transfer case parametrics. Without taking this assumption into consideration, any modification is capable of precipitating a failure of one or more electronically controlled drivetrain components.

Well I got a couple LX cars to add to the list now so this isn't just a Jeep problem.
In one SRT car the tranny wouldn't move at 3500 RPM, remove tune all works well. :confused:

Well I got a couple LX cars to add to the list now so this isn't just a Jeep problem.
In one SRT car the tranny wouldn't move at 3500 RPM, remove tune all works well. :confused:
Hey Jeff,
How many ACTUAL trans. failures do you think are out there?
It seems that SO many of the failures are do to electronic problems or converter install problems.:confused:
Also, I wonder how much the Trans. can actually take on our shifts?
I think the Predator shows the torque management kicks in about 550 NewtonMeters and pulls the throttle back etc.
Bill

Well I got a couple LX cars to add to the list now so this isn't just a Jeep problem.
In one SRT car the tranny wouldn't move at 3500 RPM, remove tune all works well. :confused:

Seems like stock tune is the way to go. My Jeep is at HHP in Newark Delaware and the trans is out. I'm going to call them to see what they think is the issue today.

Has anyone spoken to Dave at B&G about these problems? I called him after receiving two PCM’s with the same problems (not to mention 900.00 spent) and he assured me it was not his tune. Since the Diablo problems came out, I thought Dave would make an attempt to contact those who lost their all wheel drive and offer to correct the problem. I have not heard a thing from him.

Hey Jeff,
How many ACTUAL trans. failures do you think are out there?

I have no idea Bill but I would guess a few more than folks are not willing to talk about due to warrantee/claims with Chrysler and just pure embarassment.

It seems that SO many of the failures are do to electronic problems or converter install problems.:confused:

FWIW I myself think it revolves all around the electronics, but with lack of good factory/insider guidance all we can do is just test, guess and learn.

Also, I wonder how much the Trans. can actually take on our shifts?

My guess is the tranny can take that constantly but with all the added variables even torque reduction isn't smooth so that in itself adds "snap" to the system (then a loose transfercase, axles, traction issues it's all regulated to a fine line)
Lets face it Chrysler has the best engineers to design this stuff and years and many dollars to get it all correct. We are just trying to find the limits the factory already knows but isn't telling

I think the Predator shows the torque management kicks in about 550 NewtonMeters and pulls the throttle back etc.
It's all about the Torque Bill,
Too much and the whole system pulls back, too cold the system pulls back, too hot the system pulls back, it's all about pulling back. :( :(

Bill

Last time the 4WD system was being compromised a part of the program by the handheld was corrupted, it still could be or another part of the PCM program needs to be modified (there is an enormous amount of data in the Motorola files and even the Michigan Tuner God admits he doesn't know all about it.

We need to find more Auburn Hills "Spies"...............:D


J

I don't think there is enough evidence out there to say whether or not the trans failures were due to or even partly due to the PCM upgrades.

You have got to be kidding. On the AWD issue, the problem started with the B&G tune, not before. When I install my stock PCM, the problem goes away. When I install the two from B&G and the problems start again. Looks clear to me.

Has anyone spoken to Dave at B&G about these problems? I called him after receiving two PCM’s with the same problems (not to mention 900.00 spent) and he assured me it was not his tune. Since the Diablo problems came out, I thought Dave would make an attempt to contact those who lost their all wheel drive and offer to correct the problem. I have not heard a thing from him.

Just an opening I was waiting for LOL

I know two of the failures were with direct mail in PCM flash, one a 2007 and another a 2008 so no handheld is involved as 2008's aren't supported yet.
Again this doesn't mean that one tuner has a better flash than another or even it is what caused it. (I can say when I flash my vehicle with my St Mo it doesn't have half the problems it does when the little blue box flashes it, lights don't flash, the instrument panel doesn't light up as many lights, the radio keeps the same presets, etc)

And it's correct that DK may not be at fault, or that something is happening that even he isn't even aware about.
Maybe the adaptives adapt differently (some people have related to me on the LX side that they feel the tunes somehow "Adapt" some more and that the vehicle gets slower over time, shift stratagy changes also, the TCM doesn't stay "Reset" (Who knows?? This is me just speculating)

On the 2006 LX car it was a "Canned 91" tune, stock. Just a CAI.

Now on another note I know DK either gave/sold/contracted with the blue box companyfor the engine calibration, (As I also suspect the same was done with the "Yellow" tuner box company ) so that would only cover that.

(BTW I asked him for a cal last year he iggyed me on that request :()

Another thought, I sent last year, the Jeep Motorola S19 B&G "Liberated" file to Wesley he said it ran well, so maybe it was copied and if any errors were in that file they were copied???

Again just total speculation on my part.....
All I'm doing right now is tallying broken parts :D

I don't think there is enough evidence out there to say whether or not the trans failures were due to or even partly due to the PCM upgrades.

That is correct.


j

I do know that I had a sound coming from my transmission while under heavy load at high RPM's. I sent my PCM to B&G and when I got it back the sound was gone. That wasn't the end though as a new problem was immediate. The truck would accelerate wonderfully but when it came time to shift it would just bounce the rpms and not shift. This was only under heavy load. When babied or driven "normally", it would shift fine. After about 3 times bouncing the shift up top I started having major transmission issues.

Hey Jeff,
How many ACTUAL trans. failures do you think are out there?
I have no idea Bill but I would guess a few more than folks are not willing to talk about due to warranty/claims with Chrysler and just pure embarrassment.
You and I both get PM's about failures that are not posted.;)


It seems that SO many of the failures are do to electronic problems or converter install problems.:confused:
FWIW I myself think it revolves all around the electronics, but with lack of good factory/insider guidance all we can do is just test, guess and learn.
I will keep data logging...this is a learning experience.

Also, I wonder how much the Trans. can actually take on our shifts?
My guess is the tranny can take that constantly but with all the added variables even torque reduction isn't smooth so that in itself adds "snap" to the system (then a loose transfercase, axles, traction issues it's all regulated to a fine line)
Lets face it Chrysler has the best engineers to design this stuff and years and many dollars to get it all correct. We are just trying to find the limits the factory already knows but isn't telling
I will push the limit in the next week or so, I have spares ready to go.:)

I think the Predator shows the torque management kicks in about 550 NewtonMeters and pulls the throttle back etc.
It's all about the Torque Bill, too much and the whole system pulls back, too cold the system pulls back, too hot the system pulls back, it's all about pulling back. :( :(
Whew....a bit complex. Oh well, look how much we have learned in the past year! We also have quite a "test" fleet out there.

Bill

I would like to know what hard parts are failing. Or... If it is just a software issue.

Right now I have 3 blown transmissions with BG tunes.
2 transfer cases.
Details to follow.


J

What are the details?

What are the details?


As soon as the folks that have problems and get them addressed tell me I can post I'll be glad to. :D